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Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

nytimes.com

61–70 of 175 posts

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#61

What are they supposed to do? Either they comply or they leave the Chinese market. It's that simple. I hope people don't fault these companies for playing ball with a communist government.

Which basically ends up to the classic deontological vs consequentialist ethic theories. I believe though that if enough companies like Amazon and Google won't accept the conditions imposed by the government then, after some time, they may decide to change their politics.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#62
post #30

So again, companies are fighting and vocal about "freedom", equality, lgbt rights etc only when it's convinient for them, as soon as they see that it might make them lose money - they will do whatever it takes to keep that cash flowing. Look at Tim Cook, how vocal he was in US with his LGBT support and anti-Trump position and other topics, but as soon as he sees that he can lose cash from China he does almost the sam…

Apple's issue isn't just about 'losing money'. Their supply and manufacturing chain is in China. They have their throat laid bare on this one, and if they stood on principle, their throat would be cut in short order.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#63
post #59
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are ready for that, is it possible for a foreign company to obtain an ICP license and thus operate in China?

AFAIK it is possible now to get the ICP, but to integrate Wechat / Alipay or any other meaningful service you need a Chinese legal entity. A foreign company can register WFOE which is a Wholly Foreign Owned Enterprise, you do not need any Chinese partners or anything, but might be costly to set up and in paid-up capital depending on the industry. E.g. for a fashion brand I know of, they asked to have ¥10 million ($1.…

Thanks!

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#64
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's going to be up to you, the Amazon employee. Personally, I'm able to distinguish myself from the company and I my identity isn't the company's, so I wouldn't see a need to quit my job over something like this.

Any company is a sum of its employees. One certainly is part of the company's identity.

[deleted]

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#65

What are they supposed to do? Either they comply or they leave the Chinese market. It's that simple. I hope people don't fault these companies for playing ball with a communist government.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#66
post #21
post #8

Should I, an employee of Amazon, quit, if I do not support this policy?

If you are software engineer, then you are spoiled for choice. When I left Bing, their censorship in China (unlike Google) was a minor reason for me leaving. So, while it wasn't the reason, it did contribute to my decision to leave. And, again, we (SWEs) are spoiled for choice, hence taking issues like this into the account is certainly possible.

[deleted]

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#67
post #60
post #30

So again, companies are fighting and vocal about "freedom", equality, lgbt rights etc only when it's convinient for them, as soon as they see that it might make them lose money - they will do whatever it takes to keep that cash flowing. Look at Tim Cook, how vocal he was in US with his LGBT support and anti-Trump position and other topics, but as soon as he sees that he can lose cash from China he does almost the sam…

> he does almost the same thing as what he is fighting against in US That's baloney, they are not remotely the same thing.

"As expected, Apple CEO Tim Cook accepted the Free Expression Award at the Newseum in Washington D.C. tonight. At the event, Cook was presented the award and made brief comments on what it means to him and Apple, as well as touching on the importance of companies taking a stance…" [1]

[1] - https://9to5mac.com/2017/04/18/tim-cook-free-expression-awar...

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#69
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the dreaded "C" word! Thank god capitalist countries have such outstanding human rights records.

I take your point, but China specifically has an absysmal, wretched human rights record.

So fits well with companies from the US, which also specifically has an appalling human rights record.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe there's a middleground? You've still got to pick your battles and understand the scope of them. It's also entirely reasonable for a company to not to choose to follow a particular fight because it's too expensive or would have to much of an impact on the strategy of the company. If a company decides to not fund healthcare for everyone in the US, even if that aligned with their values and CSR, there's no need to…

Aiding Chinese censorship for a quick buck is your idea of a "reasonable middleground"?

Apple's been 'aiding Chinese censorship' in hundreds of ways to the tune of billions of dollars for well over a decade and you were ok with it all until they took VPN's off the app store? Lol.
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