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Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

nytimes.com

51–60 of 175 posts

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#51
post #30

So again, companies are fighting and vocal about "freedom", equality, lgbt rights etc only when it's convinient for them, as soon as they see that it might make them lose money - they will do whatever it takes to keep that cash flowing. Look at Tim Cook, how vocal he was in US with his LGBT support and anti-Trump position and other topics, but as soon as he sees that he can lose cash from China he does almost the sam…

Tim Cook runs a multi-national corporation. His obligation is to a shareholders as CEO. It is a simple as that. A lot of us don’t agree with these policy decisions by these companies, but there they are.

Then he should not yell left and right how he is fighting for freedom and human rights, just so he can win some "points" from people...It's always easy to make it look like you are fighting against something bad when your ass is safe and warm...

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#52

What are they supposed to do? Either they comply or they leave the Chinese market. It's that simple. I hope people don't fault these companies for playing ball with a communist government.

Not the dreaded "C" word! Thank god capitalist countries have such outstanding human rights records.

I take your point, but China specifically has an absysmal, wretched human rights record.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#53
post #49
post #30

So again, companies are fighting and vocal about "freedom", equality, lgbt rights etc only when it's convinient for them, as soon as they see that it might make them lose money - they will do whatever it takes to keep that cash flowing. Look at Tim Cook, how vocal he was in US with his LGBT support and anti-Trump position and other topics, but as soon as he sees that he can lose cash from China he does almost the sam…

Do you suggest all companies boycott China then cause there is no other way to break into the market?

I just suggest them not to proclaim then that they are "proud" fighters for human rights and freedom...

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#54
post #30

So again, companies are fighting and vocal about "freedom", equality, lgbt rights etc only when it's convinient for them, as soon as they see that it might make them lose money - they will do whatever it takes to keep that cash flowing. Look at Tim Cook, how vocal he was in US with his LGBT support and anti-Trump position and other topics, but as soon as he sees that he can lose cash from China he does almost the sam…

There's no reason to believe these are anything but PR stunts.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#55

In case you assumed that corporate responsibility is actually taken to heart by those making corporate strategic decisions, let this show you that it is not. Corporate responsibility moves are little more than good PR, a product selling point, and a way to avoid fines in some jurisdictions. Money matters more than morals. These corporations want access to the Chinese market. To gain access (and profit from) to the Ch…

Maybe there's a middleground? You've still got to pick your battles and understand the scope of them. It's also entirely reasonable for a company to not to choose to follow a particular fight because it's too expensive or would have to much of an impact on the strategy of the company. If a company decides to not fund healthcare for everyone in the US, even if that aligned with their values and CSR, there's no need to…

Aiding Chinese censorship for a quick buck is your idea of a "reasonable middleground"?

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#56
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tim Cook runs a multi-national corporation. His obligation is to a shareholders as CEO. It is a simple as that. A lot of us don’t agree with these policy decisions by these companies, but there they are.

Fine. Tim Cook loses all his SJW cred then, for whatever that's worth.

> SJW cred

I really hope this isn't gonna start being a "thing" I see on HN

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#57
post #30

So again, companies are fighting and vocal about "freedom", equality, lgbt rights etc only when it's convinient for them, as soon as they see that it might make them lose money - they will do whatever it takes to keep that cash flowing. Look at Tim Cook, how vocal he was in US with his LGBT support and anti-Trump position and other topics, but as soon as he sees that he can lose cash from China he does almost the sam…

Tim Cook runs a multi-national corporation. His obligation is to a shareholders as CEO. It is a simple as that. A lot of us don’t agree with these policy decisions by these companies, but there they are.

There can be some ethical issues orthogonal to profit and loss considerations though. Now would shareholders be able to sue Cook for losing money by fighting the Chinese government, I have no idea, but its not quite as simple as that, that's letting them off the hook too easily in my opinion.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#58

I wonder how much a publicly traded company could act upon their values, as opposed to the primary value of seeking value for shareholders. For instance, if an Apple or Amazon takes a stand and ends up having to pull out of China, would that be grounds for a shareholder lawsuit?

Shareholder lawsuits are among the least worrisome for a public corporation. They happen frequently. They very, very rarely end up adding up to anything that matters.

Why is that? There's an extraordinarily high bar to jump over if you're a shareholder and you want to sue and win, when it comes to showing damages from a corporation's decisions. I should emphasize it again: the bar is extraordinarily high.

It's so high, it's difficult for shareholder lawsuits to prevail against companies like Valeant Pharmaceuticals.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#59
post #45
post #28

When you apply for ICP beian license at Aliyun (Alibaba's cloud), you either choose "I use Aliyun" and give them the server ID, or you choose "I use another server" and two additional fields appear: your server log in, your server password. You need ICP license if you want to integrate any kind of service. Wechat, Alipay, other payment systems, SMS notifications etc, everything needs the ICP. I guess AWS China also h…

If you are ready for that, is it possible for a foreign company to obtain an ICP license and thus operate in China?

AFAIK it is possible now to get the ICP, but to integrate Wechat / Alipay or any other meaningful service you need a Chinese legal entity. A foreign company can register WFOE which is a Wholly Foreign Owned Enterprise, you do not need any Chinese partners or anything, but might be costly to set up and in paid-up capital depending on the industry. E.g. for a fashion brand I know of, they asked to have ¥10 million ($1.5 million) to be deposited within 1 year.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#60
post #30

So again, companies are fighting and vocal about "freedom", equality, lgbt rights etc only when it's convinient for them, as soon as they see that it might make them lose money - they will do whatever it takes to keep that cash flowing. Look at Tim Cook, how vocal he was in US with his LGBT support and anti-Trump position and other topics, but as soon as he sees that he can lose cash from China he does almost the sam…

> he does almost the same thing as what he is fighting against in US

That's baloney, they are not remotely the same thing.

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