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Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

nytimes.com

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Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#41

Post by blantonl »

usaphp wrote: post #30

So again, companies are fighting and vocal about "freedom", equality, lgbt rights etc only when it's convinient for them, as soon as they see that it might make them lose money - they will do whatever it takes to keep that cash flowing. Look at Tim Cook, how vocal he was in US with his LGBT support and anti-Trump position and other topics, but as soon as he sees that he can lose cash from China he does almost the sam…

Tim Cook runs a multi-national corporation. His obligation is to a shareholders as CEO. It is a simple as that.

A lot of us don’t agree with these policy decisions by these companies, but there they are.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#42

Post by ams6110 »

radicaldreamer wrote: post #14

It's no surprise. Even if Apple or Amazon wanted to resist this, they won't get any competent support from the current US administration. The strategy for the time being seems to be "don't rock the boat" for US businesses right now.

What? Why do they need support from the adminstration. Either they do business in China, and implicity endorse all the anti-freedom, or they do not. Sure it would cost them revenue and share price. Well right and wrong are not economic propositions.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#43

Post by mtgx »

reustle wrote: post #16
yingliu4203 wrote: post #13

Eventually they will find out that the cost is too high and the profit is too low. The make deal with Satan

I'm sure they've spent plenty of time running the numbers

Yes, and did they take into account a backstabbing from the Chinese government (both national and local) and the stealing and then re-using of their IP for the purpose of replacing them in China in due time?

They are public corporations. They probably only took into account the next 2 years of profits they could make there, put it in balance and said "yup, betraying our Chinese users as well as our principles is worth it."

But is it? Will it be? We'll see.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#44

Post by adventured »

rasz wrote: post #18
radicaldreamer wrote: post #14

It's no surprise. Even if Apple or Amazon wanted to resist this, they won't get any competent support from the current US administration. The strategy for the time being seems to be "don't rock the boat" for US businesses right now.

Strategy has always been dont rock the boat, just as during dismantling of US car industry, or TV industry. Frontline: Coming From Japan [The Fall Of The US Television Industry] (1992) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aesJTsZqm6c

> just as during dismantling of US car industry

GM and Ford sales: $317 billion

Dismantling, no. What actually happened, is the global market for automobiles drastically expanded from ~1960 forward with globalization and equally dramatic increases in the global median standard of living. Ford and GM didn't get dismantled, they gained a large number of new, competent international competitors that divided up a radically larger global pie.

Further, see: automobile production within the US by Toyota et al. which is vast. That counts as part of the US car industry.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#45

Post by jonmaim »

mstaoru wrote: post #28

When you apply for ICP beian license at Aliyun (Alibaba's cloud), you either choose "I use Aliyun" and give them the server ID, or you choose "I use another server" and two additional fields appear: your server log in, your server password. You need ICP license if you want to integrate any kind of service. Wechat, Alipay, other payment systems, SMS notifications etc, everything needs the ICP. I guess AWS China also h…

If you are ready for that, is it possible for a foreign company to obtain an ICP license and thus operate in China?

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#46

Post by ams6110 »

blantonl wrote: post #41
usaphp wrote: post #30

So again, companies are fighting and vocal about "freedom", equality, lgbt rights etc only when it's convinient for them, as soon as they see that it might make them lose money - they will do whatever it takes to keep that cash flowing. Look at Tim Cook, how vocal he was in US with his LGBT support and anti-Trump position and other topics, but as soon as he sees that he can lose cash from China he does almost the sam…

Tim Cook runs a multi-national corporation. His obligation is to a shareholders as CEO. It is a simple as that. A lot of us don’t agree with these policy decisions by these companies, but there they are.

Fine. Tim Cook loses all his SJW cred then, for whatever that's worth.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#47

Post by veidr »

sergiotapia wrote: post #4

What are they supposed to do? Either they comply or they leave the Chinese market. It's that simple. I hope people don't fault these companies for playing ball with a communist government.

Yes, playing ball with a despotic authoritarian regime is precisely what people are faulting these companies for.

A lot of companies left the market in South Africa market in the 1980s, to which the parallels are obvious.

But they didn't do it because they suddenly woke up and felt like doing the right thing; they did it because people's outrage over human rights in South Africa began to threaten the profits gained from playing ball there[1].

That's why articles like this one are important.

[1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1986/11/17/t...

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#48

Post by vacri »

blantonl wrote: post #41
usaphp wrote: post #30

So again, companies are fighting and vocal about "freedom", equality, lgbt rights etc only when it's convinient for them, as soon as they see that it might make them lose money - they will do whatever it takes to keep that cash flowing. Look at Tim Cook, how vocal he was in US with his LGBT support and anti-Trump position and other topics, but as soon as he sees that he can lose cash from China he does almost the sam…

Tim Cook runs a multi-national corporation. His obligation is to a shareholders as CEO. It is a simple as that. A lot of us don’t agree with these policy decisions by these companies, but there they are.

It's a myth that companies are legally required to maximise profit.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#49

Post by mrep »

usaphp wrote: post #30

So again, companies are fighting and vocal about "freedom", equality, lgbt rights etc only when it's convinient for them, as soon as they see that it might make them lose money - they will do whatever it takes to keep that cash flowing. Look at Tim Cook, how vocal he was in US with his LGBT support and anti-Trump position and other topics, but as soon as he sees that he can lose cash from China he does almost the sam…

Do you suggest all companies boycott China then cause there is no other way to break into the market?

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#50

Post by adventured »

mtgx wrote: post #43
reustle wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure they've spent plenty of time running the numbers

Yes, and did they take into account a backstabbing from the Chinese government (both national and local) and the stealing and then re-using of their IP for the purpose of replacing them in China in due time? They are public corporations. They probably only took into account the next 2 years of profits they could make there, put it in balance and said "yup, betraying our Chinese users as well as our principles is wort…

> They are public corporations. They probably only took into account the next 2 years of profits they could make there

That's exactly how Amazon & Jeff Bezos have not operated over the last two decades. See: their latest quarterly report.

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