Live data from Hacker News

Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

nytimes.com

21–30 of 175 posts

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#21
post #8

Should I, an employee of Amazon, quit, if I do not support this policy?

If you are software engineer, then you are spoiled for choice. When I left Bing, their censorship in China (unlike Google) was a minor reason for me leaving. So, while it wasn't the reason, it did contribute to my decision to leave. And, again, we (SWEs) are spoiled for choice, hence taking issues like this into the account is certainly possible.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#22

In case you assumed that corporate responsibility is actually taken to heart by those making corporate strategic decisions, let this show you that it is not. Corporate responsibility moves are little more than good PR, a product selling point, and a way to avoid fines in some jurisdictions. Money matters more than morals. These corporations want access to the Chinese market. To gain access (and profit from) to the Ch…

Agreed. In China, the government controls the flow of money. Sadly, there's a saying among us Chinese netizens: "China is now powerful/rich enough, that no one can actually save us from it."

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#23

I wonder how much a publicly traded company could act upon their values, as opposed to the primary value of seeking value for shareholders. For instance, if an Apple or Amazon takes a stand and ends up having to pull out of China, would that be grounds for a shareholder lawsuit?

I haven't heard of any such lawsuit against Google.

Google wasn't giving up too much in China. The search engine wasn't getting much tractions, based on differing asthetics.

Chinese websites are far more clustered and busy - take a look at https://world.taobao.com/. I guess that it's being shifted - baidu seems relatively uncluttered, but the Chinese aesthetic is cramming as much information as possible on the same web page.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#24
post #8

Should I, an employee of Amazon, quit, if I do not support this policy?

That's going to be up to you, the Amazon employee. Personally, I'm able to distinguish myself from the company and I my identity isn't the company's, so I wouldn't see a need to quit my job over something like this.

Any company is a sum of its employees. One certainly is part of the company's identity.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#25
post #22

In case you assumed that corporate responsibility is actually taken to heart by those making corporate strategic decisions, let this show you that it is not. Corporate responsibility moves are little more than good PR, a product selling point, and a way to avoid fines in some jurisdictions. Money matters more than morals. These corporations want access to the Chinese market. To gain access (and profit from) to the Ch…

Agreed. In China, the government controls the flow of money. Sadly, there's a saying among us Chinese netizens: "China is now powerful/rich enough, that no one can actually save us from it."

China is a giant corporation-like kleptocracy, the product of which is the labour of Chinese people. Now that the population that output cheap labour wanes as the demographic data deteriorates. Situations will change.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#26

What are they supposed to do? Either they comply or they leave the Chinese market. It's that simple. I hope people don't fault these companies for playing ball with a communist government.

Perhaps a naïve question but I mean it honestly: What relevance does communism have here? Is "communist" just being used as a synonym for corrupt or is there another meaning?

I'm not American so I suspect I don't associate communism with the same things you do.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#27

What are they supposed to do? Either they comply or they leave the Chinese market. It's that simple. I hope people don't fault these companies for playing ball with a communist government.

Not the dreaded "C" word! Thank god capitalist countries have such outstanding human rights records.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#28
When you apply for ICP beian license at Aliyun (Alibaba's cloud), you either choose "I use Aliyun" and give them the server ID, or you choose "I use another server" and two additional fields appear: your server log in, your server password.

You need ICP license if you want to integrate any kind of service. Wechat, Alipay, other payment systems, SMS notifications etc, everything needs the ICP.

I guess AWS China also had to give up access to all servers to govt. And given the govt "professionalism" (check the China's Ministry of Information website), that's not the kind of access I'd like to give away.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#29
post #17
post #8

Should I, an employee of Amazon, quit, if I do not support this policy?

That's going to be up to you, the Amazon employee. Personally, I'm unwilling to work for a company who's values are in severe opposition to my own, so I would probably quit my job over something like this (if I felt strongly enough about it).

Have to admit, perhaps that thought only came so strong because of me literally yesterday reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1... , knowing about this information being censored in China, and, suddenly, Amazon submissing to government to prevent people from accessing it. Right now feels too dramatic.

Re: Joining Apple, Amazon’s China Cloud Service Bows to Censors

#30
So again, companies are fighting and vocal about "freedom", equality, lgbt rights etc only when it's convinient for them, as soon as they see that it might make them lose money - they will do whatever it takes to keep that cash flowing. Look at Tim Cook, how vocal he was in US with his LGBT support and anti-Trump position and other topics, but as soon as he sees that he can lose cash from China he does almost the same thing as what he is fighting against in US. How are these companies leaders different from those people in China who sit at a top of food chain and do same things because they worry about losing money after losing control...
Post reply on HN