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Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#201

Post by inlined »

DropbearRob wrote: post #30

There is a growing misconception that it is the role of the government to "keep their citizens safe". Although that it is often the intention of legislation to prevent behaviour which may lead to unsafe situations. For example, making it illegal to drink and drive. You can arrest someone for breaking the law, but never can you arrest someone right up to the point of breaking the law. For example, You cannot arrest so…

I think outlawing conspiracy to commit a crime is the (potentially) reasonable way governments have bridged the gap and enforced prevention.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#202

Post by genon »

Jedd wrote: post #181
reitanqild wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next they take your car. Why? Cars kills way more people than guns. Often not because of a need to get from a to b but because of reckless driving just for the fun of it. So - you could argue - you should not only need to have a drivers permit but a driving permit for your actual trips. Ok. Maybe cars should be banned. Or at least restricted to people with a legitimate reason like politicians and doctors. But do you…

> Next they take your car. But cars are useful and, on average safer, for many / the majority of people that use them. Guns are, on average, not so useful / safe. Note that I'm averaging this across the planet, not just across one small (5% of global population) country with a lot of strong opinions on the matter. > Why? Cars kills way more people than guns. I know it's a pithy aphorism, but in the same way that guns…

> Guns are, on average, not so useful / safe.

To be fair, I don't think many people are killed by toy guns. One thing I'll never forget from the land of Orwell is this from 15 years ago (virtually to the day, ironically enough):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2168430.stm

    Three 12-year-old children were arrested
    by five police officers who then fingerprinted
    them and took DNA samples, after the youngsters
    were seen playing with a toy gun.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#204

Post by firmgently »

diego_moita wrote: post #171

In UK, Murdoch's "News of the World" hacks into the phones of hundreds of people and politicians continue the debate about privacy as if it doesn't matter. In US, Russia hacks into Hillary's email server and politicians on Capitol Hill start using Whispering Systems' Signal and begin to understand why strong encryption is necessary. Don't worry too much, someday Vladimir Putin will show to the UK government why stron…

I heard someone explaining how the phone hacking worked the other day (Steve Coogan in a great chat with Adam Buxton on YT for anyone who likes them). Two journalists would phone the target at the same time. One kept them talking, the other could be sure to get their voicemail because the line was busy. They'd try the default password of 0000 which 'nobody bothers changing' (I may have the number wrong, I'm going from memory and don't use voicemail) and frequently, it worked. So in terms of skillz it's somewhere up there with the fappening... default passwords, encryption wouldn't have prevented it.

(not that I disagree with your general point btw)

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#206

Post by almonj »

Get rid of all government programs. Instantly a huge amount of wealth will be gained and productivity will skyrocket. It is very important to remember: nothing the government does is good. What is the minimum amount of manipulation and lies it takes to cover up a problem? This is the question every government worker ponders every day of their job. Every one of these people are lying, scheming, delusional people. They manipulate and they lie, they shuffle things around and create busy-work for disgusting twisted crab-people.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#207

Post by qubex »

solatic wrote: post #157
DropbearRob wrote: post #30

There is a growing misconception that it is the role of the government to "keep their citizens safe". Although that it is often the intention of legislation to prevent behaviour which may lead to unsafe situations. For example, making it illegal to drink and drive. You can arrest someone for breaking the law, but never can you arrest someone right up to the point of breaking the law. For example, You cannot arrest so…

> There is a growing misconception that it is the role of the government to "keep their citizens safe". What misconception? This is the basis of the social contract between society and its government, to safeguard the natural rights of society, the foremost of which (Life, among Life, Liberty, Property/Pursuit of happiness) is the safety and security of members of society. Read up on Locke and Rousseau https://en.wik…

Rights aren't natural, they aren't inherent, they are assigned (or granted) by a given constitutional context. In some systems there are rights that do not exist in other systems, even very fundamental ones.

Governments are extending their mandate and they are curtailing/"ungranting" certain other rights (principally, the uncodified "right to privacy"). Insofar as Parliament is sovereign in the UK and is the ultimate source of all rights, this is within their remit and requires no exceptional super-majority or constitutional amendment process.

Whether this is desirable or otherwise is quite another matter.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#209

Post by paradite »

almonj wrote: post #206

Get rid of all government programs. Instantly a huge amount of wealth will be gained and productivity will skyrocket. It is very important to remember: nothing the government does is good. What is the minimum amount of manipulation and lies it takes to cover up a problem? This is the question every government worker ponders every day of their job. Every one of these people are lying, scheming, delusional people. They…

That's way too cynical and oversimplified to be considered a substantial comment.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#210

Post by detaro »

mtl_usr wrote: post #208

No secure communication AND Brexit ? Hope Europeans bankers will enjoy their new offices in Berlin, Amsterdam and Paris.

Eh, banks pretty much are on the side of backdoored encryption - e.g. see recent proposals to make it easier for them to MITM TLS in their own networks, and compliance requirements for the messaging products they use.
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