Live data from Hacker News

How to Deconstruct Almost Anything, by a Software Engineer

info.ucl.ac.be

11–20 of 107 posts

Re: How to Deconstruct Almost Anything, by a Software Engineer

#11

Deconstruction is not a method, and does not follow a formula, and pointing out the (numerous, outrageous) errors in this piece would take more time than I have. I sympathize with the author's desire to make fun of that which he doesn't understand, but ultimately, it's a shallow game.

That's actually one way in which I think Derrida did somewhat of a disservice to himself. Someone once asked him to explain what deconstruction was, and he answered something like: all of my books are an attempt to answer that formidable question. Okay, I can even buy the point that there may be some inherent complexity not reducible to a one-paragraph answer, but saying "sorry, the answer is all my books, taken together" is not too useful of an answer. Surely there is an admittedly oversimplified answer that can give people some vague idea of the general gist of it? I mean, when people do pop-sci writups of astrophysics, they aren't exactly explaining astrophysics, but a simplified version of it (sometimes very simplified), which hopes only to give people an idea of the kind of thing that happens, not to actually teach them how to do it in all its complexity.

I think Derrida would've been much better off, in terms of intellectual legacy, if he had a student who took him somewhat less seriously on that point, perhaps even against his wishes. Say, someone who was willing to write even a fairly difficult and technical book, but in straightforward, fairly clear prose, attempting to explain at least a version of the main ideas Derrida's works dealt with. Instead, he got people who sort of pushed him in the opposite direction, Derrideans whose prose was somehow even "more Derridean" than his own, and who didn't really do much as far as explaining his ideas to anyone who didn't already buy them. Put differently, what difficult but possibly brilliant thinkers need are clear and convincing expositors, not also-difficult-yet-mediocre imitators.

Re: How to Deconstruct Almost Anything, by a Software Engineer

#12
The lesson here is that intellectual inbreeding is a terrible and sad thing if you're an outside observer. All fields of academic study should once in a while be faced with outside scrutiny because without it the discipline optimizes cleverness instead of actual intellectual content.

Re: How to Deconstruct Almost Anything, by a Software Engineer

#13

Deconstruction is not a method, and does not follow a formula, and pointing out the (numerous, outrageous) errors in this piece would take more time than I have. I sympathize with the author's desire to make fun of that which he doesn't understand, but ultimately, it's a shallow game.

> Deconstruction is not a method, and does not follow a formula, and pointing out the (numerous, outrageous) errors in this piece would take more time than I have.

If it doesn't have a method or a formula, could you instead tell us what deconstruction is? How can I tell it from a best-seller or the output of a Markov text generator?

Could you simply point out the most outrageous error in the text? Or just an outrageous error?

> I sympathize with the author's desire to make fun of that which he doesn't understand, but ultimately, it's a shallow game.

I reject your attempt to belittle the author by suggesting they are shallow. Your response is fallacious (telling us there are errors without pointing out what they are, ad hominem against the author) and, in claiming to "sympathise" with the author's supposed "desire to make fun", snobbish.

I try to be as civil on the internet as I am in real life. IRL, I'd say "Stop sneering and tell us something useful, or go away."

Re: How to Deconstruct Almost Anything, by a Software Engineer

#14

While I should just shrug it off and say "haha, you got us, we're certainly stuffy", look at the things we often are trying to discuss in Literature. Now, it's one thing to question the artistic merits of literature studied in academia, such as the almost impenetrable "Finnegan's Wake". It's not all because of its vernacular (I can't really read too much of it at a time because it blurs into almost gibberish after aw…

Sorry, but that does not make sense to me.

A discipline either establishes common criteria to distinguish good stuff from bad stuff or it doesn't. And these should not be arbitrary otherwise the judgment remains subjective and therefore worthless.

Since you admit that "there's alot of hacks", it seems literary criticism has no criteria or they are mostly subjective. Otherwise, you wouldn't have such a lot of hacks, but just a few.

It obviously produces hardly anything worth knowing, no?

Re: How to Deconstruct Almost Anything, by a Software Engineer

#15

The lesson here is that intellectual inbreeding is a terrible and sad thing if you're an outside observer. All fields of academic study should once in a while be faced with outside scrutiny because without it the discipline optimizes cleverness instead of actual intellectual content.

[deleted]

Re: How to Deconstruct Almost Anything, by a Software Engineer

#16

Deconstruction is not a method, and does not follow a formula, and pointing out the (numerous, outrageous) errors in this piece would take more time than I have. I sympathize with the author's desire to make fun of that which he doesn't understand, but ultimately, it's a shallow game.

> Deconstruction is not a method, and does not follow a formula, and pointing out the (numerous, outrageous) errors in this piece would take more time than I have. C'mon, this is Hacker News, we don't say "This is wrong, but I won't tell you why" here. For what it's worth, I'd actually like to hear your perspective if you take the time. The article provided a coherent explanation of deconstruction that jives with wha…

OK, I'll try to do this, but honestly, I don't have the kind of time it deserves.

Deconstruction is, roughly speaking (and believe, me, I'm speaking schematically here) for the purposes of this discussion, the philosophy of Jacques Derrida, and his followers. (We'll ignore, for the moment, the more literary analysis of Paul De Man, which often go under the name of deconstruction as well.)

Derrida makes it very clear throughout his writings that deconstruction is not a repeatable method which can be applied to a text, but rather, an engagement with a text on its own terms. So, there is no "formula" or set of steps that can be applied.

Second, despite the author's reduction of deconstruction to a branch of literary criticism, the texts in question are more often from the philosophical corpus than from the literary tradition. While it's true that Derrida devotes more attention to folks like Joyce, Celan and Genet than most philosophers do, the quantity of pages he devotes to them is a tiny fragment of the time he devotes to Heidegger, Husserl and Hegel, for instance.

Despite the author's step-by-step breakdown, deconstruction in practice doesn't work this way. If I were forced to generalize (and I suppose I am), I would say that deconstruction consists most often of a micrological reading (that is to say, a very close reading of the actual words of the text, not not just the broad concepts) which takes into account the (usually unconscious) assumptions that the author is working within. Most often, these assumptions, when taken to their logical conclusion lead to either a contradiction or an aporia, and the text often reflects this, unknowingly. So, a deconstructive reading often picks up on latent implications of the text itself.

I should point out that the author here is completely wrong when he writes "Step 2 -- Decide what the text says. This can be whatever you want...." This is egregiously incorrect. In fact, one of Derrida's main points is that we do not decide at all what the text says. (As an aside, decidability is actually a term of art within deconstruction, so the author's abuse of it here is particularly irksome. If he had say "figure out" instead of "decide" he'd have been less wrong on several counts.)

To take a concrete (and much celebrated) example, Derrida's "Plato's Pharmacy" is a reading of Plato's Phaedrus. It will make absolutely no sense to you if you haven't already read the Phaedrus closely, and are already familiar with the traditional interpretation of the text within philosophical circles. Sorry, but that's the bar to entry.

Assuming that you know the Phaedrus, then: the central moment in the text (according to the standard reading) is the condemnation of writing-- you know the passage. In the course of this, Plato (or rather Socrates, or rather, an Egyptian king in a legend recounted by Socrates recounted by Plato) compares writing to a drug, using the Greek word "pharmakon". Derrida shows that this word, like the English word "drug", has both a positive sense ("remedy") and a negative sense ("poison"), and cannot be reduced to either singular meaning. Furthermore, the oscillation between these two meanings cannot be fully controlled, but only understood through context, which is never saturated (never fully complete.) Put simply, if you call something a drug, you can't exclude either the positive or negative meaning in the mind of the listener. Now, at this point, Derrida then goes through the entire Platonic corpus, and quotes every time the word "pharmakon" or one of its cognates ("pharmikia", etc.) is mentioned, and shows the range of meanings implied by this term for Plato, and its implications for the passage in the Phaedrus. So far, so good. But here comes the kicker: Derrida shows that although Plato uses a variety of related terms throughout his works, there is one cognate which is notable by its absence: "pharmakos", meaning "scapegoat". And this ghost-reference to scapegoating seems to fit quite well with what Plato is doing with writing.

Now, I've trivialized Derrida's argument in at least a dozen ways in writing this-- and as I said, the above will not make any sense if you're not already steeped in the debates within the philosophical tradition about "writing" versus "speech", which are of little interest to anybody outside of the philosophical tradition. But that's a taste of what deconstruction is like, and how it operates.

I'll note in passing that there is only one "binary opposition" that Derrida is at all interested in within his work-- "interior" vs "exterior"-- and the "speech" vs "writing" discussion in Plato is a proxy for this.

The paper linked here make "jive with what your eyes see", because it was written by somebody on the outside, looking in. And I'm sure that if I were to write an outsider's view of a discipline I knew nothing about (say, astro-physics) it might look completely plausible to another outsider, while in reality bearing little resemblance to what actually goes on within the discipline.

Does that help at all?

Re: How to Deconstruct Almost Anything, by a Software Engineer

#17

Deconstruction is not a method, and does not follow a formula, and pointing out the (numerous, outrageous) errors in this piece would take more time than I have. I sympathize with the author's desire to make fun of that which he doesn't understand, but ultimately, it's a shallow game.

> Deconstruction is not a method, and does not follow a formula, and pointing out the (numerous, outrageous) errors in this piece would take more time than I have. If it doesn't have a method or a formula, could you instead tell us what deconstruction is? How can I tell it from a best-seller or the output of a Markov text generator? Could you simply point out the most outrageous error in the text? Or just an outrageo…

I tried in another posting to respond, but I'll take another crack at it here.

Here are a few outrageous errors, taken at random: "Deconstruction, in particular, is a fairly formulaic process" "points are awarded on the basis of style and wit rather than substance," "Decide what the text says. This can be whatever you want,"

I try to be as civil on the internet as I am in real life. IRL, I'd say "Stop sneering and tell us something useful, or go away."

The useful something I would tell you is: don't assume that people making fun of something actually understand what that something is. Furthermore, don't assume that just because something can't be easily explained in a blog post, it is nonsense. And finally, don't be surprised when people who take a complex discipline seriously are reluctant to engage with dismissive outsiders with an axe to grind and no real desire to engage. (My brother-in-law is a professor of Shakespeare at Cambridge, and you should see the look on his face when someone at a cocktail party raises the "authorship" issue...)

Re: How to Deconstruct Almost Anything, by a Software Engineer

#18

Deconstruction is not a method, and does not follow a formula, and pointing out the (numerous, outrageous) errors in this piece would take more time than I have. I sympathize with the author's desire to make fun of that which he doesn't understand, but ultimately, it's a shallow game.

That's actually one way in which I think Derrida did somewhat of a disservice to himself. Someone once asked him to explain what deconstruction was, and he answered something like: all of my books are an attempt to answer that formidable question. Okay, I can even buy the point that there may be some inherent complexity not reducible to a one-paragraph answer, but saying "sorry, the answer is all my books, taken toge…

I think Derrida would've been much better off, in terms of intellectual legacy, if he had a student who took him somewhat less seriously on that point, perhaps even against his wishes. Say, someone who was willing to write even a fairly difficult and technical book, but in straightforward, fairly clear prose, attempting to explain at least a version of the main ideas Derrida's works dealt with

You want to know the funny thing? He did exactly that.

One of Derrida's most prominent students, Geoff Bennington, wrote a book (with Derrida's approval and authorization) which attempted to summarize Derrida's work for the general reader. To make the game more interesting, he attempted to do so without directly quoting Derrida a single time. And, just to put a nice bow on it all, Derrida read the manuscript, and wrote a piece (which is published in the same volume) outlining briefly the parts of his philosophy he thought were excluded by Bennington's summary.

Re: How to Deconstruct Almost Anything, by a Software Engineer

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Deconstruction is not a method, and does not follow a formula, and pointing out the (numerous, outrageous) errors in this piece would take more time than I have. C'mon, this is Hacker News, we don't say "This is wrong, but I won't tell you why" here. For what it's worth, I'd actually like to hear your perspective if you take the time. The article provided a coherent explanation of deconstruction that jives with wha…

OK, I'll try to do this, but honestly, I don't have the kind of time it deserves. Deconstruction is, roughly speaking (and believe, me, I'm speaking schematically here) for the purposes of this discussion, the philosophy of Jacques Derrida, and his followers. (We'll ignore, for the moment, the more literary analysis of Paul De Man, which often go under the name of deconstruction as well.) Derrida makes it very clear…

> Does that help at all?

It does, yes. Thanks for taking the time, that was really detailed and informative.

Re: How to Deconstruct Almost Anything, by a Software Engineer

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I'll try to do this, but honestly, I don't have the kind of time it deserves. Deconstruction is, roughly speaking (and believe, me, I'm speaking schematically here) for the purposes of this discussion, the philosophy of Jacques Derrida, and his followers. (We'll ignore, for the moment, the more literary analysis of Paul De Man, which often go under the name of deconstruction as well.) Derrida makes it very clear…

> Does that help at all? It does, yes. Thanks for taking the time, that was really detailed and informative.

I honestly wish I had the time to give it the explanation it deserves. (In addition to having 4 kids and my second start-up, I'm in the middle of a M.A. in Buddhist Studies, and have a paper due shortly, so when I said "I don't have time to fully explain", I really meant it.)

Continental Philosophy is a fascinating discipline, and I really don't understand why people who don't understand it feel the need to dismiss it via a caricature.

Post reply on HN