Live data from Hacker News

Data Structures for Coding Interviews

interviewcake.com

211–220 of 238 posts

Re: Data Structures for Coding Interviews

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most "senior developers" I know don't know much about data structures. Standards are pretty low in the industry. One reason might be that optimizing for memory consumption or handling "large scale data" almost never happens in practice.

> Most "senior developers" I know don't know much about data structures. Standards are pretty low in the industry. Even if standards were low, the point of an interview is to gauge the standard of the developer. Algorithms and data structures knowledge is important.

Important for what? For interviews? In the real world, inefficient software wins because it appears to do more work. When the slow behemoth has to learn a new trick, you feel like a hero for taming the beast. You get praise when you reduce the runtime of something from five minutes down to four minutes. You don't get time to rewrite the mess so that it would complete in seconds. That would obviously be impossible because we just spent weeks on the one-minute improvement, right? With a bit algorithmic knowledge, this kind of speedup would be possible, but the knowledge is rare.

One could even argue that the algorithm interview trope is harmful because it puts this type of knowledge in the "useless in practice" drawer that will never be opened again.

Re: Data Structures for Coding Interviews

#212
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy that there is a whole industry dedicated to cheating ahem gaming job interviews in software/IT. Imagine if doctors or lawyers or real engineers did this. No wonder we can't get taken seriously as a profession.

Imagine if docs could be rejected from a new job because they failed to repeat the obscure diagnosis that was featured on the last episode of House, that really has nothing at all to do with the job they wanted to do. Imagine if lawyers could be rejected for not being able to explain the minority opinion in Foobar v. Bazquux, which again, has absolutely nothing to do with their expected duties as prosecutor of poor p…

subtly discriminate to preserve "culture"

Indeed; this is a point I make over and over. HR departments aren't smart enough to detect ageism being openly practiced right under their noses...

Re: Data Structures for Coding Interviews

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How important though? Rarely does it come into play from my experience, at least for those who work in predominantly the UI layer on the web. Even at my job at Big Co. as a senior engineer (algorithms/data structures knowledge is necessary to pass the interview process here), it hasn’t manifested in a significant way, at least not compared to other skills such as architecting systems for maintainability, identifying…

I'm not saying it's impossible to code without knowing this stuff, just that it gives you an edge as it helps a lot when you have to deal with memory and speed constraints. If you're coding UIs for web apps, you're probably not going to run into issues unless you're dealing with large collection or collections where the record sizes are big. If you're writing backend processes, mobile apps, games, embedded apps, grap…

If a backend process is slow, you buy another server, install Hadoop or something and call the whole mess "big data".

Mobile apps are known for taking ages to load and for taking too much space. They usually block on network requests and are eager to throw information away before blocking on a request to fetch the same information again.

Embedded applications know what hardware they are running on, so they can waste all of the available resources. Extending them later is often very difficult due to that.

In realtime graphics the required knowledge is very specific to realtime graphics. 101 algorithms won't help you at all.

In non-realtime graphics, who cares? Let's spend this quarter's budget on a redesign of the progress bar so that we can have meetings and beautiful powerpoints.

Re: Data Structures for Coding Interviews

#214
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past, interviewing.io was free for anybody to try (it was when I looked at it three years ago) and if somebody hasn't looked at it recently they might not know when the situation has changed.

We're still free, and we always will be.

Sorry; I meant 'free' as in there wasn't a waiting list but checking my email I see that I was on the waiting list at first, too. I guess I'll just testify that people have used it. :)

Re: Data Structures for Coding Interviews

#215
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My bad, I misinterpreted your comment. I second the artisanal mindset that you have elaborated, and it will be better for everyone if we adopt the craftmans mindset (Which Cal Newport also talks about). I personally feel that we should model Software Engineering like the Apprenticeship model in Germany. It would be interesting to see how it fares.

I had someone reply to one of my comment that they 'didn't know about the Vietnam War because they weren't born then'. ... I feel like our discipline suffers from a lot of the same problems. IBM mainframe experience doesn't translate into knowing the intricacies of React, but it does provide wisdom on systems and usability problems people coding in React are going to run into too. Glorify the new, but be informed by…

quite so.

Re: Data Structures for Coding Interviews

#216
I bombed an interview last week. Five straight hours of whiteboarding. One of the interviewers (just a year or two out of school) admitted he got his questions from interviews he went on in the past. What he didn't mention was whether or not he answered the problems correctly. What if I was being judged for not being able to solve something he could not solve himself?

People that ask these types of questions take the easy way out. It's a lot harder to ask thoughtful questions that really try to gauge if somebody knows what they're talking about because you have to really understand things yourself. For instance, somebody can easily say they setup a pipeline that scales. Sounds great. Asking questions that makes them go into finer detail to make sure they're not bullshitting you is a bit tougher.

Re: Data Structures for Coding Interviews

#217
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder about genius developers who throw fit when someone asks them to implement linked list (the actual chapter in the linked article). I understand the complaint when people get asked to balance red black trees out of nowhere or something else more complicated, but this article is very basic. Yeah, this can be memorized pretty easily, but "lets talk about how passionate you are" which is invariably suggest…

The only reasonable, real-world solution to the linked list question is "How many bids do you need for me to collect for licensing the third-party code library? Three? It's usually at least three. I'll look at Infragistics, JetBrains, and anything I can find that's open source, and get back to you by COB. Are there any specific features that the linked list has to have? Any deal breakers? Do we need official support,…

I'm going to start asking linked-list questions just to weed out people who take it as a grave insult to their ego.

Re: Data Structures for Coding Interviews

#218

I got an impression who their target audience is, based on the examples used, drinking kombucha and listening to Spotify. All the young, beautiful people who wouldn't have ever taken a computer science course if it weren't such a lucrative industry to be in right now. Maybe with this guide they can pass an interview at a big company where they just twiddle with bits all day. I won't be holding my breath until they ca…

This is bull shit. Are you also the kind of guy (I know you are a guy) that is also on the "look out" for "fake" geek girls? The homepage looks a lot like the programmers I meet. Do they need to be overweight and not care about how they look to be real programmers that can actually produce something useful?

Is this a personal attack on me? :^)

The projection in your comment is unreal: a just world fallacy where only unattractive people can be smart, attractive people are mindless, which was definitely not the point.

Re: Data Structures for Coding Interviews

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be mandatory for programmers to be able to concoct even bad examples of a sort algorithm in real time and create data structures for anything from a linked list to binary trees. It is also important to have candidate code samples for an interview with dissection and analysis by the candidate. This is to understand where the programmer is in their professional development, how much is copy-paste and how much…

Ah yes, "fundamentals". Also known as "everyone should have to go through the same hazing rituals I went through!"

All modern software is built on layers upon layers of leaky abstractions. If you view fundamentals as nothing more than hazing rituals, you won't even be aware of just where the abstractions start to leak and you'll end up writing shitty code. Of course, it's perfectly possible nowadays to do so and let it be an SEP (Somebody Else's Problem).

Re: Data Structures for Coding Interviews

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nailed it. I have a very hard time explaining to my youngster colleagues that they're neither "engineers" nor "scientists'. Now I can use your words.

I have an actual engineering degree and write code that controls some sophisticated hardware. Am I allowed to be called an engineer and not an artisan or whatever?

As my dad always says, "you can call me a jar, as long as you don't smash me to bits". Since Slavic proverbs don't always translate well to English, it might be best to clarify: what you call yourself is not as important as what you do.

What @sgt101 wrote about measurements is an important and insightful point. Does it mean we can't call ourselves engineers? That's a discussion that won't be resolved any time soon. Personally, I care more about the job itself, than about the label you slap on it.

Post reply on HN