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Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

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Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#181
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you feel about the banning of toy weapons - including water pistols, plastic swords, bows & arrows, rubber knives? (Personally I think it's a fine idea, but many of my thoughts are easily taken out of context.)

Next they take your car. Why? Cars kills way more people than guns. Often not because of a need to get from a to b but because of reckless driving just for the fun of it. So - you could argue - you should not only need to have a drivers permit but a driving permit for your actual trips. Ok. Maybe cars should be banned. Or at least restricted to people with a legitimate reason like politicians and doctors. But do you…

> Next they take your car.

But cars are useful and, on average safer, for many / the majority of people that use them. Guns are, on average, not so useful / safe. Note that I'm averaging this across the planet, not just across one small (5% of global population) country with a lot of strong opinions on the matter.

> Why? Cars kills way more people than guns.

I know it's a pithy aphorism, but in the same way that guns don't kill people, cars don't kill people either. It's a matter of mitigating the risk of misuse of one or the other (or both). And, as I say, cars have a very important benefit for a lot of people. Guns ... less so.

In any case you've missed my point.

We don't have toys that we hand out to toddlers and You turn that into a 'if the kiddies don't have plastic semi-automatic weapons, then we'll have to give up private transport, and then we won't be able to use commercial airlines'.

Aside: there's sufficient natural experiments out there that demonstrate the benefits of gun control compared to, say, the USA's approach. While I respect your preferences here, it's difficult to make a compelling argument.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#182
post #2

> When pressed on what kind of metadata she wanted, she replied: “I’m having those conversations in private.” Well I would like to know who she's having those conversations with, when she's having them, and how long they last. I think it's important that she share this information with us. So that we can catch criminals.

Unfortunately you cant. They have already exempted themselves from any type of monitoring. Only the proletariat can be spied on or forced to account for themselves. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/new...

This is very true. There is class antagonism behind the surface.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#183

There is a growing misconception that it is the role of the government to "keep their citizens safe". Although that it is often the intention of legislation to prevent behaviour which may lead to unsafe situations. For example, making it illegal to drink and drive. You can arrest someone for breaking the law, but never can you arrest someone right up to the point of breaking the law. For example, You cannot arrest so…

> or example, You cannot arrest someone for being drunk and having their car keys in their pocket, or even being asleep in the car while drunk.

Yes you can. In the UK (since we're discussing the UK, that's important), the offense is being in charge of a motor vehicle whilst incapacitated by drink or drugs. Incapacitated is defined as being over the limit defined in law (80mg in England/Wales and 50mg in Scotland - don't cross the border after a drink!).

Mere possession of the keys or being inside the vehicle [alone] or sitting in the driving seat is treated exactly the same as driving drunk. Some pubs will offer a 'hold your keys' service where you put the keys behind the bar and come back the next day to collect the keys and car when you're below the limit for driving.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

your reply seems very accusatory. I'm not suggesting that there shouldn't be a speed limit, or that people who speed aren't culpable for their actions. I'm talking about the fairly well-known incidence of cameras on sharp bends or that are hard to see at the bottom of hills (or worse yet, police pulled up on ramps on the side of the road) where people who are speeding will see them and slam on their brakes. This is w…

I'm sorry if I came across as accusatory - my use of 'you' was meant in general, rather than to the poster in particular. But, I was being accusatory to people in general who speed. I'm not sure how to point the finger of blame without being accusatory! Take even your 'well known' examples of speed traps 'known to cause an increase in traffic accidents' (do you have a source?) - the people who were speeding and slamm…

And it's such a ridiculous thing, too. Going 7mph faster doesn't really net you that much in the long run. You're barely even saving minutes. Going 100 miles at 70mph takes 1 hour and 25 minutes. Going 100 miles at 77mph takes 1 hour and 18 minutes. You're saving 7 minutes, hardly worth a speeding ticket, right? And if you're going an average commute time of 25 miles, the difference between 70mph and 77mph is two minutes.

What's the point in going just a few mph above the speed limit? Just for the jollies? Sticking it to the man? Because the reason certainly isn't getting there faster.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry if I came across as accusatory - my use of 'you' was meant in general, rather than to the poster in particular. But, I was being accusatory to people in general who speed. I'm not sure how to point the finger of blame without being accusatory! Take even your 'well known' examples of speed traps 'known to cause an increase in traffic accidents' (do you have a source?) - the people who were speeding and slamm…

Take even your 'well known' examples of speed traps 'known to cause an increase in traffic accidents' (do you have a source?) - the people who were speeding and slammed on their brakes must share most, if not all, of the blame if they caused an accident as a result. What's more important, assigning / shifting blame or preventing harm?

If speeders care about preventing harm, they wouldn't be speeders.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you remove the technological protections, the communications become accessible not only to law enforcement but also to malicious people - cryptography doesn't care if you have a warrant or not. A particular communications channel either is secure from anyone or it's vulnerable to everyone. If UK home secretary argues that we shouldn't be allowed to use secure channels, then that does imply that all such communicat…

The superficial solution to this is not to outlaw cryptography completely, but to require those who make cryptography available to keep master keys and/or logs. I know that these are not a real solution as they can be leaked or abused, but it's best that we don't pretend not to hear this argument. We should make clear that these are insufficient and that there's nothing wrong with private communications truly remaini…

> The superficial solution to this is not to outlaw cryptography completely, but to require those who make cryptography available to keep master keys and/or logs.

The infrastructure keeping those keys then becomes an irresistible target to compromise. The government has already lost critical data such as the application data for most/all Classified personnel in the military and contractors. If that kind of data cannot be kept safe then you can be sure that a legally centralized infrastructure to keep keys will be attacked, and likely compromised at some point.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#189
post #146

She's as evil as she is hideous.

That was totally uncalled for and immature! It's comments like this that make politicians scoff at criticism because they'll put name calling and legitimate criticism in the same box.

Then tell that to every journalist insulting Trump for his admittedly clownish looks? The guy has proven he's a joke of a leader so why not take the high road and let him dig his own figurative grave??
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