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Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#61

Post by blibble »

Fifer82 wrote: post #16

Oh god, I despair of this country. After a decade of conservative I have never been so disillusioned. I feel like I am stuck in a rut or like, I don't belong here. It is a horrible feeling. Deep down I know that the government is stuck in 1740 and by the time that millennials walk the halls of power, their parents will have signed away all their rights. The very last thing I love is my country, that is for sure.

not as if the same thing is happening in France, Germany or the EU is it?

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/28/german_french_minis...

sadly it seems as if all security services in nearly all developed countries want this sort of thing, and the UK is simply a few months ahead here

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#62

Post by DarkKomunalec »

tomfitz wrote: post #32
jstanley wrote: post #2

> When pressed on what kind of metadata she wanted, she replied: “I’m having those conversations in private.” Well I would like to know who she's having those conversations with, when she's having them, and how long they last. I think it's important that she share this information with us. So that we can catch criminals.

Are you law enforcement with a warrant?

But if she has nothing to hide, why should it matter if he's law enforcement or not? After all, there's no harm in being spied on, is there?

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#63

Post by k-mcgrady »

dm319 wrote: post #12

I feel like the people who understand encryption and privacy advocates (myself included) are not engaging enough (or maybe effectively enough) with the public in communicating the concerns around trying to 'backdoor' encryption or giving up more of our privacy. While I think these political statements are often ridiculous, they actually have widespread public support, if my cohort of friends and family are anything t…

I think the problem isn't that the ideas/reasons for privacy aren't being communicated. It's that a lot of people are seriously worried they will be a victim of a terrorist attack (and the government tells them this invasion of privacy will protect them from that) and when they hear the other side's arguments they are happy to fall back on the 'I've got nothing to hide' argument. Honestly it's a nice mindset to be in so I understand why it's hard to convince them otherwise.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#64

Post by pjc50 »

tomfitz wrote: post #32
jstanley wrote: post #2

> When pressed on what kind of metadata she wanted, she replied: “I’m having those conversations in private.” Well I would like to know who she's having those conversations with, when she's having them, and how long they last. I think it's important that she share this information with us. So that we can catch criminals.

Are you law enforcement with a warrant?

The Home Secretary is a proxy for the security services. Not the police, I'm referring to MI5. It doesn't seem to matter who holds the job, they've been pushing this for decades.

MI5 have no interest in things like warrants or courts and a rather murky history in Northern Ireland.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#66

Post by k-mcgrady »

proactivesvcs wrote: post #54
raesene6 wrote: post #35

ah more security cluelessness from the UK Government. The frustrating piece is that they're ignoring their own internal experts on this. The people running the National Cyber Security Centre are very bright and have stated that they think backdoors are a bad idea from http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/05/problems-end... "Ian Levy, the technical director of the National Cyber Security, told the New Statesma…

The UK government has a habit of ignoring its own experts, to the degree of firing them if they give advice the government don't like. Drug policy is another area that suffers from this approach.

I was just about to mention this. For anyone interested Professor David Nutt[0] was fired from his role as the government's chief drug advisor after claiming ecstasy and LSD were less dangerous than alcohol.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/oct/30/drugs-advis...

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#67

Post by tomfitz »

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #62
tomfitz wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you law enforcement with a warrant?

But if she has nothing to hide, why should it matter if he's law enforcement or not? After all, there's no harm in being spied on, is there?

Is the home secretary using that argument?

We ought to use strong arguments. This thread's arguments aren't strong.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#68

Post by pjc50 »

sonthonax wrote: post #14
rwmj wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of terrorists are clowns who, if they happen to use encryption at all, will mess up infosec in ways that are trivial to compromise. So if the Home Secretary is saying that message encryption is a "problem" then there must be something else going on which has little to do with terrorism.

> The vast majority of terrorists are clowns. Perhaps if you're referring to home grown Islamic terrorists. However Britain does have a problem with an experienced group of rather professional terrorists called the IRA.

And the lesson people keep refusing to learn is that the conflict in NI was ended not by military or legal action but by political action, including the establishment of human rights in law there as insurance against arbitrary state actions.

The IRA are and were very different from the Islamic terrorists, who are much less organised and more resemble isolated self-radicalised far right extremists.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#69

Post by tomfitz »

pjc50 wrote: post #64
tomfitz wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you law enforcement with a warrant?

The Home Secretary is a proxy for the security services. Not the police, I'm referring to MI5. It doesn't seem to matter who holds the job, they've been pushing this for decades . MI5 have no interest in things like warrants or courts and a rather murky history in Northern Ireland.

I'm not sure of the relevance of this to jstanley's argument, nor my rebuttal.

Re: Message encryption a 'problem' – UK home secretary

#70

Post by mattrichardson »

blibble wrote: post #61
Fifer82 wrote: post #16

Oh god, I despair of this country. After a decade of conservative I have never been so disillusioned. I feel like I am stuck in a rut or like, I don't belong here. It is a horrible feeling. Deep down I know that the government is stuck in 1740 and by the time that millennials walk the halls of power, their parents will have signed away all their rights. The very last thing I love is my country, that is for sure.

not as if the same thing is happening in France, Germany or the EU is it? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/28/german_french_minis... sadly it seems as if all security services in nearly all developed countries want this sort of thing, and the UK is simply a few months ahead here

EU are working to prevent it

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/19/eu-outlaw...

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