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Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

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Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#101

Post by PhasmaFelis »

accountyaccount wrote: post #34
pavel_lishin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so?

A manager could then point to the salary of someone in the same position and say "Jane gets paid $X in the same position, it would be unfair to give you a raise and not her" I don't work somewhere with transparent salaries and I already get that excuse — I've more than once heard "you're kind of already at the top of our range for X position" and "if we pay you anymore you'll be making more than me!"

> I don't work somewhere with transparent salaries and I already get that excuse

It sounds like managers will be doing that either way. With open salaries they at least wouldn't be able to lie about it.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#102

Post by mcappleton »

silassales wrote: post #23
scottLobster wrote: post #18

Seems like most of his advice could be summed up as: "Don't over-complicate the situation". To use his first example, when he's being insulted why spin off into emotional-analysis neverland? What's happening there is you're being abused by an asshole, and you should respond to said abuse and, once that situation is resolved, examine the real issue more thoroughly. I'm speaking as someone who used to think exactly lik…

> In general, no one cares. No one cares if you're partially wrong, no one cares if you're a little off or awkward, no one beyond your family/SO and close friends gives a flying fuck about your emotions. Took me awhile to figure this one out, but once I did, life was significantly better.

That's why if you can be a person who genuinely cares and show it, you can go very far in life

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#103

Post by mcappleton »

When someone acts like a jerk to you, remember this: hurting people hurt people. It is a natural tendency to lash out at others when we are hurt. So to fix the situation, try to figure out what's hurting the other guy and see if you can help deal with the source of his pain. Don't fight back or you'll just hurt him more and make him more mad.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#104

Post by js8 »

jimbokun wrote: post #7
js8 wrote: post #2

I don't understand why is he letting the other people to define that there should be a conflict? For instance, in salary negotiations - I don't get why so many people (in IT) are opposed to idea of open salaries or at least a professional organization.

That's Magi thinking, not warrior thinking. If you are applying for a job at a company, there is no chance you are going to change their entire compensation strategy as a precondition to getting the job. So it's either engage Warrior mode and negotiate, or move on and interview somewhere else. If you found a company, or in a position in your current company that upper management will listen to you, that's a better op…

> That's Magi thinking, not warrior thinking.

I think you're right. But the GP is apparently more comfortable as a Magi; so why not make it into an advantage?

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#105

Post by js8 »

pmoriarty wrote: post #17
TimPC wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people feel open salaries and professional organizations inadequately handle specializations. In University sectors there have been effects like: CS lecturers not allowed to be paid more because positions are harder to fill vs say Fine Art History lecturers. I'm not saying that's bad overall, but I can certainly see why CS lecturers might not like it. I think it's fairly easy for these models to fail at bringing…

"CS lecturers not allowed to be paid more because positions are harder to fill vs say Fine Art History lecturers" Why does this sound backwards to me? If a position is hard to fill, wouldn't you want to pay the person more so that they don't leave? Conversely, if a position is easy to fill, wouldn't the university pay less, since if the person leaves they'll be easy to replace? How does paying someone less because th…

> How does paying someone less because their position is hard to fill make any kind of sense? What am I missing here?

I don't think you're missing anything. Free markets (or supply and demand) are perfectly symmetric. That's why they cannot enforce any kind of morality, like meritocracy, whatever it is. Only people can do that and it will always have a cost in the completely free market.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#106

Post by slaymaker1907 »

scottLobster wrote: post #18

Seems like most of his advice could be summed up as: "Don't over-complicate the situation". To use his first example, when he's being insulted why spin off into emotional-analysis neverland? What's happening there is you're being abused by an asshole, and you should respond to said abuse and, once that situation is resolved, examine the real issue more thoroughly. I'm speaking as someone who used to think exactly lik…

I've spoken up in meetings before because I was concerned about how my coworkers were being talked to and how it was clearly affecting them emotionally. I'm not a saint, but I try to respect other people's feelings and do things as tactfully as I can.

In the first example presented in the article, it would have been much more effective and kind to come to the other person and try to understand why the module failed instead of ranting. Ranting and yelling almost never leads to positive outcomes even if it feels good at the time.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#107

Post by eksemplar »

gboudrias wrote: post #84

This is amateur psychology, and it's mostly wrong. Psychology is a real field and writing about what you don't know in this field can do more harm than good. I stopped at: > Getting anger out requires some physical activity to get the adrenaline to metabolize. This has been disproven. "Letting it out" only leads you to be more aggressive. Maybe at a more appropriate time, but still, it doesn't "calm you down". Time a…

Anything that divides people into introverts or extroverts is humbug. It's true that some people are more introverted than others in certain situations, but as a general rule, everyone are both things.

Preferring to stay home and read a book rather than socialize at a bar is an introverted trait, but dungeon mastering (or even participating) in a role playing event is extroverted. Being unsure what to say at lunch is introverted, owning the tech meeting is extroverted.

I mean, its obviously more complicated than this, but the basic rule is that there is no such thing as an introvert, and honestly, as a manager of people with varying degrees of loudness, it's not always the loudest or most social people who are good at bargaining for a raise.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#108

Post by icc97 »

gboudrias wrote: post #84

This is amateur psychology, and it's mostly wrong. Psychology is a real field and writing about what you don't know in this field can do more harm than good. I stopped at: > Getting anger out requires some physical activity to get the adrenaline to metabolize. This has been disproven. "Letting it out" only leads you to be more aggressive. Maybe at a more appropriate time, but still, it doesn't "calm you down". Time a…

> This has been disproven. "Letting it out" only leads you to be more aggressive.

From reading the below article [0] which talks about what you say, the 'letting it out' is e.g. punching a pillow.

Perhaps he's wrong about the part where you're actively thinking about the aggression towards the other person, but the advice to go and run or do something physical instead of shouting at the ones you love is definitely a good idea.

[0] https://www.mentalhelp.net/blogs/anger-and-stress-letting-it...

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#109

Post by icc97 »

> Right question is:

> Why was I stun-locked?

> Why couldn’t I think of the snappy response?

> Because I can’t do verbal processing and emotional processing at the same time!!!

This is worth repeating from the article. It explains an unbelievably common feeling I've had for my entire adult life - not knowing what to say at the time and then getting frustrated later on when you do think of something

That one piece is an absolute gem.

His answers for solving this aren't perfect, but certainly worth reading.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#110

Post by rimliu »

eksemplar wrote: post #107
gboudrias wrote: post #84

This is amateur psychology, and it's mostly wrong. Psychology is a real field and writing about what you don't know in this field can do more harm than good. I stopped at: > Getting anger out requires some physical activity to get the adrenaline to metabolize. This has been disproven. "Letting it out" only leads you to be more aggressive. Maybe at a more appropriate time, but still, it doesn't "calm you down". Time a…

Anything that divides people into introverts or extroverts is humbug. It's true that some people are more introverted than others in certain situations, but as a general rule, everyone are both things. Preferring to stay home and read a book rather than socialize at a bar is an introverted trait, but dungeon mastering (or even participating) in a role playing event is extroverted. Being unsure what to say at lunch is…

Pretending something does not exist will not make it to go away. Yes, you will hardly find pure introvert or extrovert, but you will find plenty of people not in the middle of the scale and those can be called introverts or extroverts. It's like claiming that gays and straight people do not exist because there are no 100% gay or 100% straight people.

Yes introverts do some "extroverted" stuff, and may be even very good at that. What makes them different from extroverts is that extroverts get energised by doing that, and introverts get drained.

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