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Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

businessinsider.com

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Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#51

Post by halestock »

enknamel wrote: post #39
AlexC04 wrote: post #12

I'm a Tesla shareholder (of little significance in the grand scheme of things, but I bought some) and this wouldn't put me off. In fact, I think they should have a union.

As a shareholder this would really put me off. Unions are one of the main reasons we had such a huge American auto crisis just a few years ago. I'm largely anti-union anyways. We should have government enforced guarantees of decent treatment. We shouldn't have a tyranny of the masses demanding ever more pay, benefits, etc until a company is bled dry.

Unions are the reason we have "government enforced guarantees of decent treatment".

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#52

Post by throwayit »

enknamel wrote: post #39
AlexC04 wrote: post #12

I'm a Tesla shareholder (of little significance in the grand scheme of things, but I bought some) and this wouldn't put me off. In fact, I think they should have a union.

As a shareholder this would really put me off. Unions are one of the main reasons we had such a huge American auto crisis just a few years ago. I'm largely anti-union anyways. We should have government enforced guarantees of decent treatment. We shouldn't have a tyranny of the masses demanding ever more pay, benefits, etc until a company is bled dry.

While this would work well in theory, do you see either political party working to build a stronger "bill of labor rights" for Americans?

Americans don't have basic labor rights like mandated vacation, paternity/maternity leave, sick leave, etc. I don't see the American political system as fixing this anytime soon.

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#53

Post by Frondo »

enknamel wrote: post #46
greekyogurt21 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Made an account just to say that I couldn't tell if this post was sarcasm or not. Really? You don't want "...tyranny of the masses demanding ever more pay, benefits, etc until a company is bled dry", but you're ok with "..government enforced guarantees of decent treatment."? Strong fucking everything

Unions ruin nearly every company they touch Government unions are even worse because the government is largely able to support a nearly unlimited budget. Let's not forget that unions are not opt-in or opt-out. If you work in a union shop you are in that union and their dues are automatically taken directly out of your pay. You don't like what your union is doing? Tough luck. Suddenly you need to negotiate with the pe…

You're being downvoted because this isn't true.

No one is ever legally obligated to join a union in the U.S. You may be required to pay dues, since the union affords you protections even if you're not a member, but you'll never be required to join it.

It's also not true that "don't like what your union is doing, tough luck". Unions are democratic organizations. Don't like what it's doing? Take your case to your fellow union members, persuade them, and steer the ship to what you do want the union to do.

You seem to have a view of unions that is tinged with much of the anti-union lies that have been propagated for decades in this country. (I won't dignify those lies by calling them propaganda.)

I doubt a handful of forum posts would convince you to reexamine the things you say that aren't true, but I hope you'll consider the fact that you've been mislead for a long time by very wealthy, powerful, media-savvy people.

(Unions are none of these, by the way--not particularly wealthy, nor powerful, and not media-savvy in the slightest.)

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#54

Post by AmVess »

enknamel wrote: post #39
AlexC04 wrote: post #12

I'm a Tesla shareholder (of little significance in the grand scheme of things, but I bought some) and this wouldn't put me off. In fact, I think they should have a union.

As a shareholder this would really put me off. Unions are one of the main reasons we had such a huge American auto crisis just a few years ago. I'm largely anti-union anyways. We should have government enforced guarantees of decent treatment. We shouldn't have a tyranny of the masses demanding ever more pay, benefits, etc until a company is bled dry.

The main reason why the auto makers had a hard time was the global recession. Unions had exactly nothing to do with it.

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#55

Post by stcredzero »

michael_storm wrote: post #29
evolve2k wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok yes, on re-reading I think this article is talking bullshit. The sentence does read "but has since told employees to report injuries directly to him", but the linked article behind the article then explains that he wants all injuries reported to him. Subtly different, dirty journalism. I think my point on us living in a "Musk can't do wrong bubble stands" but on this occasion it seems shoddy reporting should mean…

> Subtly different, dirty journalism. Or it was a mistake. Journalists sometimes make them, too.

> Or it was a mistake. Journalists sometimes make them, too.

My experience with small time journalists, is that many are unethical and they are busy thinking of a narrative that they can sell to their editor and/or their audience. If their distortions were mistakes, they would be random, but lots of people reporting news in media generally err on the side of being more lurid, shocking, or controversial.

You can tell the ethical ones, because they manage to avoid this and be the "cooler heads that prevail."

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#56

Post by enknamel »

Frondo wrote: post #53
enknamel wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions ruin nearly every company they touch Government unions are even worse because the government is largely able to support a nearly unlimited budget. Let's not forget that unions are not opt-in or opt-out. If you work in a union shop you are in that union and their dues are automatically taken directly out of your pay. You don't like what your union is doing? Tough luck. Suddenly you need to negotiate with the pe…

You're being downvoted because this isn't true. No one is ever legally obligated to join a union in the U.S. You may be required to pay dues, since the union affords you protections even if you're not a member, but you'll never be required to join it. It's also not true that "don't like what your union is doing, tough luck". Unions are democratic organizations. Don't like what it's doing? Take your case to your fello…

Actually you are wrong. You can be legally obligated to join a union in any non Right to Work state. Unions almost always have a union security clause forcing employers to only accept their members who are in good standing.

Unions are also not very democratic. They are democratic in principle but once again fall to the tyranny of the majority. If you are a minority in a union you are completely screwed unless you can trump their demands by using a protected class.

Unions have already served their purpose, well their original purpose was racism pure and simple, but their purpose of protecting workers is no longer necessary. Now they exist to only protect themselves.

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#57

Post by JKCalhoun »

mtl_usr wrote: post #17

Now seems like the perfect timing to do such a thing considering the Model 3 is entering production, and a lot of customers are going to give Tesla a very bad reputation if they can't get their Model 3 on time. Of course, this will only give incentives to the company to further automate it's production facilities, at the expanse of the workers.

> this will only give incentives to the company to further automate it's production facilities, at the expanse of the workers.

That would happen regardless.

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#58

Post by JoshTriplett »

Frondo wrote: post #53
enknamel wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions ruin nearly every company they touch Government unions are even worse because the government is largely able to support a nearly unlimited budget. Let's not forget that unions are not opt-in or opt-out. If you work in a union shop you are in that union and their dues are automatically taken directly out of your pay. You don't like what your union is doing? Tough luck. Suddenly you need to negotiate with the pe…

You're being downvoted because this isn't true. No one is ever legally obligated to join a union in the U.S. You may be required to pay dues, since the union affords you protections even if you're not a member, but you'll never be required to join it. It's also not true that "don't like what your union is doing, tough luck". Unions are democratic organizations. Don't like what it's doing? Take your case to your fello…

> No one is ever legally obligated to join a union in the U.S. You may be required to pay dues, since the union affords you protections even if you're not a member, but you'll never be required to join it.

So you can instead choose to pay money yet have no voice, or choose to not have a job at that company, or in some cases a job in an entire profession when the union has bought legislation to that effect. Great choice.

> Take your case to your fellow union members, persuade them, and steer the ship to what you do want the union to do.

Sure. And if you can't, then you should be able to stop giving them money if they're going to use it for purposes you oppose.

(For clarity: I have no problems with unions; in some cases they've achieved extraordinary things. I do have problems with mandatory union dues/membership, and mandatory unions for entire professions. Voluntary associations are a great thing; involuntary associations are not.)

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#59

Post by enknamel »

halestock wrote: post #51
enknamel wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a shareholder this would really put me off. Unions are one of the main reasons we had such a huge American auto crisis just a few years ago. I'm largely anti-union anyways. We should have government enforced guarantees of decent treatment. We shouldn't have a tyranny of the masses demanding ever more pay, benefits, etc until a company is bled dry.

Unions are the reason we have "government enforced guarantees of decent treatment".

Yes. Now why do we need unions if their mission has been accomplished? Their purpose has been served.

Re: Tesla factory workers pushing for a union send demands to Tesla's Board

#60

Post by crooked-v »

enknamel wrote: post #59
halestock wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are the reason we have "government enforced guarantees of decent treatment".

Yes. Now why do we need unions if their mission has been accomplished? Their purpose has been served.

You seem to assume that that certain factions (cough, cough, Republicans) won't happily roll back worker protections if unopposed.
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