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Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

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Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#81

Post by nroach »

devdevdev83 wrote: post #71

This applies to extroverts as well, not just introverts (and there are plenty of extroverted programmers too)

I’m not convinced that the headline properly represents the content. I think it’s unfair to imply that the characteristic of introversion is correlated to a deficit in the ability to process emotional input in realtime. I would consider myself highly introverted, but I don’t identify at all with the emotional reaction of the author.

It’s possible that in his specific situation he is both introverted and highly emotionally responsive. But it’s a logical fallacy to then extrapolate that connection to other individuals with only one of those attributes.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#82

Post by scottLobster »

pm90 wrote: post #66
scottLobster wrote: post #18

Seems like most of his advice could be summed up as: "Don't over-complicate the situation". To use his first example, when he's being insulted why spin off into emotional-analysis neverland? What's happening there is you're being abused by an asshole, and you should respond to said abuse and, once that situation is resolved, examine the real issue more thoroughly. I'm speaking as someone who used to think exactly lik…

This deserves to be the topmost comment in this thread. I don't know if its a common problems among people, but even though I know these facts, I can't help but not be affected by gaffes or embarrassments in a rather traumatic way sometimes. This makes slights by others even more painful. Perhaps its a part of my subconscious mind but I have been working on it for a while. My reactions are less intense but I think I…

Same here. In my case it took years of self-imposed exposure therapy, forcing myself into various social situations and staying mindful of my reactions. I ended up making an ass of myself more times than I care to remember, but the sky didn't fall, and eventually the anxiety impulse faded and I got better at social interaction. I agree the hardest part was teaching myself not to obsess. My natural urge was to analyze small social faux-pas in excruciating detail for days or weeks and to this day I occasionally catch myself doing it and have to consciously stop.

But in my amateur opinion it is at the end of the day simply a mal-adaptive reflex, and reflexes can be trained. Working out, mediation and proper sleep also helped a lot more than I thought they would. I wonder if reflexes like this partially stem from an mildly overactive adrenal system or something.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#83

Post by j_s »

JoshDoody wrote: post #72
j_s wrote: post #70

Paging HN's own JoshDoody, who helps developers with salary negotiation for a living. And/or anyone who has used his (or similar) services! “What’s your current salary?” is a trap question–Here's how to answer it | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13724755 "Before you even get a job offer, it's important to decide what your "walk away" number is [...] I recommend literally writing it down" - https://news.ycombina…

Thanks for the mention j_s! This is a really interesting thread and a long article by Cliff. I'm working my way through it now. Looks like the "current salary" question came up. Any other topics I should jump on for this thread? (Soooo many comments, it's taking a long time to get through them.) Cheers!

My question would be to help a community I've recently discovered where college grads are practicing mock interviews on Twitch:

What mindset is needed as someone with minimal production development experience (perhaps an internship or something) goes into a job interview salary negotiation? That first negotiation forms the foundation of the rest of their career -- no pressure!

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#84

Post by gboudrias »

This is amateur psychology, and it's mostly wrong. Psychology is a real field and writing about what you don't know in this field can do more harm than good.

I stopped at:

> Getting anger out requires some physical activity to get the adrenaline to metabolize.

This has been disproven. "Letting it out" only leads you to be more aggressive. Maybe at a more appropriate time, but still, it doesn't "calm you down". Time and reflection do that.

The bit about "The Aspects of Farmer, The Magi, and the Warrior" seems particularly out of place. It is pure conjecture, and seems arbitrary to me.

It's good to know yourself but please refrain from giving general advice based on your personal anecdotal evidence. I'm talking about everything after your own introspection. It seems like helping but it isn't.

Edit: Also to anyone reading this, for the love of god, don't take psychological advice from untrained internet strangers. If you find yourself struggling with the same issues, see a therapist. They're good at this stuff.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#85

Post by munchbunny »

adrianratnapala wrote: post #39
burritofanatic wrote: post #30

Lift heavy; do Jiu Jitsu - deter the manager from ever attempting to verbally abuse you lest risking discordance. Relish in your newfound mental clarity.

I think you are saying the author should be a bit more alpha-male and partly I agree. Though not particularly alpha-male myself, I would have handled the first situtation better by instinctively out-arseholeing the arsehole. But I would not handle all such social situations so quickly or confidently. And sometimes the moments I miss are opportunities to be nice. The point being that moving along a personality dimensi…

Having gone through a process similar to what the author of the article did, the problem is that it's more complicated than "merely" being a bit more alpha-male.

The problem is getting past freezing up. It's hard because it was my brain's innate reaction all through my young adult years, so I had to put a lot of time and energy into rewiring it to not freeze up first.

Once I could get past freezing up, I could practice ways to stay rational in emotionally charged situations, which in turn allowed me to learn how to defuse situations better. With more practice, I was able to manage the same situations with a strong sense of principle. That in turn let me say "no" in a way where people consistently respected my answer.

But that was a 5 year journey filled with unpleasant moments.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#86

Post by JoshDoody »

j_s wrote: post #83
JoshDoody wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the mention j_s! This is a really interesting thread and a long article by Cliff. I'm working my way through it now. Looks like the "current salary" question came up. Any other topics I should jump on for this thread? (Soooo many comments, it's taking a long time to get through them.) Cheers!

My question would be to help a community I've recently discovered where college grads are practicing mock interviews on Twitch: What mindset is needed as someone with minimal production development experience (perhaps an internship or something) goes into a job interview salary negotiation? That first negotiation forms the foundation of the rest of their career -- no pressure!

Great question. My top answer is the article you linked to in your original comment: Don't disclose your current or desired salary. That will cost you a lot of money.

Since you mentioned mock interviews, I'll assume that Twitch channel is mostly focused on interviewing, getting more interviews, and ultimately getting job offers. If that's the case, the single best thing they can work on is their positioning - telling a story about how they'll make the company better if they're a part of it.

I have a video of how Software Developers can do this effectively here: https://fearlesssalarynegotiation.com/software-developer-pos...

This is especially useful for internships and entry-level jobs because most of the resumes submitted for those jobs look very similar. But positioning can help a Developer stand out from the pack. Sometimes, standing out as a slightly stronger candidate is all it takes to get an offer.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#87

Post by JumpCrisscross »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #75
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did your mom never tell you to ask before you touch? Hope you learnt a lesson today If I weren't livid already, that would get me there. It's condescending, needlessly brings in and insults a loved one and offers zero empathy or productive feedback.

And that may be exactly what is needed. If someone is trying to be the alpha-jerk, playing emotionally manipulative games, they're not teachable (at least not at that moment). Compassionately asking whether they had a rough childhood is not going to help. (I mean, it might, at a different time and setting. It won't in the current one, though.) And what they are doing is not OK . Life is too short to have to deal with…

> It's probably better to inform the jerk, in no uncertain terms, that behaving that way will have immediate negative consequences

There's a bright line between telling someone they're being rude and being rude back. OP could communicate something like "you're coming across super aggressively right now; that makes it hard for me to have this conversation." That draws a clear maturity line. Such lines can motivate better behavior, by laying the groundwork for mutual respect. They also, in the worst case, clearly establish fault.

In a professional environment, you can't demand someone stop being an asshole by being one back. That just invites others to feel fine being rude to you in the future.

> I'm assuming that the behavior is deliberate

That is an untested assumption. Double check, preferably by asking them as directly as possible, e.g. "this is coming across in an incredibly hostile way; I don't think that's your intention."

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#89

Post by scottLobster »

pixelperfect wrote: post #80
silassales wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In general, no one cares. No one cares if you're partially wrong, no one cares if you're a little off or awkward, no one beyond your family/SO and close friends gives a flying fuck about your emotions. Took me awhile to figure this one out, but once I did, life was significantly better.

People do care about these things if you are a well-known public figure. I think the constant scrutinizing over the conduct of public figures misleads people into believing that their own actions are being scrutinized in the same way.

More accurately, people who don't like those well-known public figures care about those things. The fans and neutrals usually don't care and often even defend the awkwardness.

Re: Introverts, Emotional Processing, Self-Esteem and Salary Negotiations

#90

Post by Scarbutt »

scottLobster wrote: post #18

Seems like most of his advice could be summed up as: "Don't over-complicate the situation". To use his first example, when he's being insulted why spin off into emotional-analysis neverland? What's happening there is you're being abused by an asshole, and you should respond to said abuse and, once that situation is resolved, examine the real issue more thoroughly. I'm speaking as someone who used to think exactly lik…

There is a very nice article posted here on HN some time ago that expands more throughly on your point and made me come to the same realization as you.

https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/06/taming-mammoth-let-peoples-op...

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