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Risks of Artificial Intelligence

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Re: Risks of Artificial Intelligence

#51

Post by nske »

tomsthumb wrote: post #40
exratione wrote: post #24

Some humans are likely to become more powerful than other humans some day. Most such humans will by default develop instrumental subgoals that conflict with other human interests. This could have catastrophic consequences. If we don't actively work on control mechanisms and safety of human behavior, this will most likely pose an existential risk to humanity. Compare and contrast. I think people make too much of the w…

> Some humans are likely to become more powerful than other humans some day. Most such humans will by default develop instrumental subgoals that conflict with other human interests. Isn't this already true?

It has been true multiple times throughout history. Every time some negative feedback kicks in changing the rules of the game enough for a certain balance to exist. If anything, it seems this balance tends to improve every time -although it might be too early to tell. However it does seem to me that the difference in power among humans (no matter how power is defined) is never big enough to make "other human interests" irrelevant.

Re: Risks of Artificial Intelligence

#52

Post by SubiculumCode »

colorint wrote: post #50
SubiculumCode wrote: post #31

Drones: Flight in 3d open space is not a hard problem for machine learning. Indiscriminate Visual Targeting: Not all that hard a problem for machine learning. Downvote me if you will, but I freely admit that I am scared of drones with guns. Either as an invading force, or as an attack from terrorists. A machine doesn't have to be smart to shoot at anything that moves or has a heat signature. Edit: Drones with chainsa…

Indiscriminate visual targeting is a potentially hard problem if you're doing it against adversaries. One of the things that's underappreciated about machine learning is, since it's statistical, it can only be about anomaly detection, so the solution is to not be anomalous. You could conceivably hide from thermal imaging by using ice packs, and anyway, you only have to get to within the range of indifferentiability f…

I agree, against prepared adversaries. I am more worried about it being used against civilians.

Re: Risks of Artificial Intelligence

#53

Post by rrggrr »

haydenlee wrote: post #36
rrggrr wrote: post #8

Manufactured products are generally safe because the economic costs of shipping unsafe products is too high. Legal fees, litigation, products liability insurance, judgement costs, UL certifications, OSHA compliance and inspection costs, etc. It took several generations for the risks to be understood and for politicians to succumb to public pressure and enact product safety / tort legislation. It would be nice for Con…

So we should regulate AI to slow advancements and let other countries take the lead? Would you rather be taken over by China's general AI or the USA's?

Excellent comparison. China's current economic and environmental woes are a good example of what 'progress at all costs' outcomes look like. There ought to be a public debate about this and what costs are acceptable.

Re: Risks of Artificial Intelligence

#54

Post by lern_too_spel »

nske wrote: post #51
tomsthumb wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some humans are likely to become more powerful than other humans some day. Most such humans will by default develop instrumental subgoals that conflict with other human interests. Isn't this already true?

It has been true multiple times throughout history. Every time some negative feedback kicks in changing the rules of the game enough for a certain balance to exist. If anything, it seems this balance tends to improve every time -although it might be too early to tell. However it does seem to me that the difference in power among humans (no matter how power is defined) is never big enough to make "other human interest…

Indigenous peoples have always suffered this problem. The difference with superintelligent AI is that (unless the problems are addressed) it will make the global elite suffer, too.

Re: Risks of Artificial Intelligence

#55

Post by chriswarbo »

titzer wrote: post #42
chriswarbo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not you're joking, I think the real problem with using Terminator as an example is that it's overly optimistic. The story is roughly: 1) US military builds up arsenal of autonomous killing machines and nuclear missiles 2) US military connects all of these to the Internet 3) US military creates a powerful AI which takes control of this arsenal (whether it was put in charge or hacks in seems to vary across t…

The even scarier scenario is: 0) AI "becomes self-aware," hides 1) US military builds up arsenal of autonomous killing machines and nuclear missiles 2) US military connects all of these to the Internet 3) AI by default has control of these 4) AI wipes out humanity in massive, overwhelming strike

Again, I don't think that's scarier, since step 0 is a) pretty meaningless and b) completely unnecessary. Our technology is capable of so much destruction (intensional or inadvertent) that it doesn't make much difference whether a human pushes the button or the button pushes itself; least of all whether the self-pushing button is "aware" that it's pushing itself.

Re: Risks of Artificial Intelligence

#56

Post by optimuspaul »

goatlover wrote: post #26
optimuspaul wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wether you like it or not it has become a part of the conversation. It is part of the culture and we can't just ignore it simple because it is fiction. Your dismissal of it is to many as irksome as it's inclusion is to you. Perhaps calm down and recognize that it is partially tongue in cheek but also not something we can simply ignore.

Should we also worry about the dangers of creating xenomorphs (Alien franchise) in the future?

Yes. It fills me with worry that you even asked the question. How can you not be worried?!?

Re: Risks of Artificial Intelligence

#57

Post by optimuspaul »

CivilianZero wrote: post #19
optimuspaul wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wether you like it or not it has become a part of the conversation. It is part of the culture and we can't just ignore it simple because it is fiction. Your dismissal of it is to many as irksome as it's inclusion is to you. Perhaps calm down and recognize that it is partially tongue in cheek but also not something we can simply ignore.

I am calm, but the fact that science fiction entertainment and smart people in real life think AI is a threat is a sign we may have gotten a little carried away in taking notes from entertainment. If someone would like to provide some evidence of some form of computer intelligence acting maliciously, this would be a different discussion, but the fact is that sort of thing has no basis in reality and so should have no…

I don't see it as "taking notes from entertainment" but rather exploring the possibilities and expressing them using pop culture references. I can't disagree more with you that we shouldn't be considering outlandish fiction when we discuss future possibilities. The fact that the idea has entered into our collective psyche makes it a real possibility. That is the basis it has in reality. I don't think I need to cite any specific examples of AI behaving badly when you need only look in your pocket for examples of speculative fiction becoming reality.

Re: Risks of Artificial Intelligence

#58

Post by lgas »

optimuspaul wrote: post #16
CivilianZero wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is not. It is a movie made for entertainment. We are in reality. It really irks me how much debate and decision-making in technology is based on bias gained from mindless entertainment and not from anything based in reality. (I am not besmirching the good name of Terminator, that movie is a true classic)

Wether you like it or not it has become a part of the conversation. It is part of the culture and we can't just ignore it simple because it is fiction. Your dismissal of it is to many as irksome as it's inclusion is to you. Perhaps calm down and recognize that it is partially tongue in cheek but also not something we can simply ignore.

The solution to those who are irked on both sides is to stop just throwing around "terminator is relevant" and "terminator is irrelevant" and to say why you think it's relevant, or why you think it's not relevant. Then you can discuss the meat of your thoughts and not their origin.

Re: Risks of Artificial Intelligence

#59

Post by goatlover »

optimuspaul wrote: post #56
goatlover wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we also worry about the dangers of creating xenomorphs (Alien franchise) in the future?

Yes. It fills me with worry that you even asked the question. How can you not be worried?!?

Spoiler Alert

Well, in Alien Covenant, we learn that an AI created the Ripley Aliens. Imagine Skynet sending xenomorph terminators after Sarah & John.

I think that should be a new reboot.

Re: Risks of Artificial Intelligence

#60

Post by adenozin »

chriswarbo wrote: post #55
titzer wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The even scarier scenario is: 0) AI "becomes self-aware," hides 1) US military builds up arsenal of autonomous killing machines and nuclear missiles 2) US military connects all of these to the Internet 3) AI by default has control of these 4) AI wipes out humanity in massive, overwhelming strike

Again, I don't think that's scarier, since step 0 is a) pretty meaningless and b) completely unnecessary. Our technology is capable of so much destruction (intensional or inadvertent) that it doesn't make much difference whether a human pushes the button or the button pushes itself; least of all whether the self-pushing button is "aware" that it's pushing itself.

Yeah, our weapons are really destructive now, but AI like that won't have mercy. If any nation fires nukes and nuclear war starts there is no way in practice all of the human race will wiped out, in theory yeah and then it doesn'matter who fired them, but that is only in theory.
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