Hypnotized by Hyperloop • Hacker News Board

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#231

Post by loceng » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 12:57 PM UTC

dwaltrip wrote: post #190

njarboe wrote: post #13

Such a negative, do-nothing article. "taking every billionaire’s quirky visions at face value". Elon Musk is a bit different than every billionaire. Re-usable orbital class boosters and the Model S is what gives Elon the street cred others don't have. "so-called Boring Company" WTF? The New Yorker was always a purveyor of a certain type of elitism, but since the Trump election they have really upped the intensity. No…

Obviously, Musk is killing it with Tesla and SpaceX. There is no doubt about that. He will be remembered in the history books for this. But is he really serious about this Boring company stuff? The whole thing sounds ludicrous. Even if he reduces cost 10x, they are still crazy expensive and have a lot sorts of strange complications. I don't get it.

The subway systems in major cities around the world were all privately owned before cities bought them up - mainly because different lines were owned by different companies. Those would have been massive undertakings and super expensive. What Elon is proposing are simply similar systems except for different distances. He's serious and it's brilliant - and his humour embedded in the The Boring Company's name is grand. Also to add, people confuse the Hyperloop technology because of the company called Hyperloop One (not sure how they're able to use that name), Hyperloop One which is using and proposing maglev technology - and I don't believe Elon will use it, it really kills efficiencies at scale - cost wise and otherwise.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#232

Post by kurthr » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 1:25 PM UTC

eesmith wrote: post #228

kurthr wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you expect this to be above ground? I'd expect that it would be bored since (in states where mineral rights aren't held by the land owner) it's cheaper than above ground right of way. At boring depths (greater than 60ft or 20m) temperature change is less than 0.1c and thermal expansion ~10ppm. Serpentines 100km in diameter could easily be used with radial deflections of only 10cm. The g-load at 1080km/hr=300m/s wi…

The original Hyperloop proposal was elevated, so ... yes. As far as I am aware of, there are three different things: 1) Hyperloop as originally planned, for above-ground long-distance travel 2) tunnels under dense cities, for existing cars carried on, perhaps, electric sledges, 3) a "verbal agreement" mentioned by Musk about an Easy Coast tunnel hyperloop which no government official has confirmed, and with no concre…

Yes, I always thought those pictures of above ground hyper-loop looked silly. It's not like you're going to be in a transparent tube (first mass use of VR please B^). But all of these comments are off the original expansive topic, and in fact much more relevant. Thermal expansion simply isn't a problem that needs to get solved, because holding sub-mm tolerances over a km is unrealistic, and if cost was an issue, you'd put the dann thing in the ground.

Don't confuse me with someone who finds hyper-loop realistic... but don't tell me it can't be done because it needs 5 doors and to be painted a particular color of red. I don't particularly care what some ex-paypal guy who runs a car company says about it either. Engineering matters.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#233

Post by aedron » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 1:42 PM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #164

pas wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only cost is important for tunnels, because there's still space sufficient for hundreds of layers of tunnels below cities.

Only if you build tunnels that no one can get to. Road tunnels still need to obey grade and (horizontal and vertical) curvature restrictions. For example, every story down you push a tunnel, every city block longer an access ramp needs to be. And the deeper you make tunnels, the more difficult ventilation and pumping becomes.

Musk's system uses elevators.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#234

Post by animal531 » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 1:51 PM UTC

squimmy wrote: post #229

stcredzero wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you could get anywhere in the world in seconds, Star Trek transporter style, then demand would level off. Hell no. People raised on "jump cut" vlog culture will just start jump cutting in real life. (Before anyone takes offense, they should first read Larry Niven's seminal articles about how Sci-fi authors should extrapolate sociological issues, using teleportation as his prime example.)

I'm interested in these articles you mention, but am having trouble finding out more. Do you remember what they were called, or any details about their publication?

I remember one particular sci-fi story (I don't remember right now if it was by him though). In it they have booth to booth teleporters that can take you virtually anywhere on the planet that's been hooked up.

One of the consequences of the technology is that immediately spectator value goes off the chart. As soon as people hear about something interesting happening anywhere then there is an an influx of a few million people playing spectator, which as you can imagine, has some consequences.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#235

Post by droidist2 » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 1:52 PM UTC

brentdax wrote: post #224

m-s wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about improving public transport by investing in existing technologies that work for other cities? I'd consider that a more sensible approach than pouring public funds into an experimental technology which may or may not solve LA's transportation woes in 20 years.

LA has as many bus stops as New York City, but about a third of the daily riders. It has as much subway track as Washington, D.C., but about half the daily riders. The city just isn't suited to traditional mass transit—it's too sprawled out.

True, it's easy to forget that LA even has a subway.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#236

Post by kpil » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 2:02 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #137

kurthr wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thank you for bringing this up and the chance to read about this issue elsewhere, but no it isn't a problem. We have 2000km long gas pipelines. They dont worry about it (on the surface where temperatures actually change). Serpentines work... there are so many solutions that one could be accidentally introduced. I think we're discussing a bikeshed.

> Serpentines work Yes, for gas pipelines. Not for a track that carries passenger vehicles at 700 MPH.

Introducing The Vomit Comet for the (reasonably wealthy) masses!

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#237

Post by mhermher » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 3:32 PM UTC

ClassyJacket wrote: post #216

mamon wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so he is a great entrepreneur: knows how to run the company to be profitable, low cost, high revenue, knows how to advertise, how to make a lot of hype. Those are great skills, but have nothing to do with technology. There are many companies that are better at creating new, disrupting technologies: Google with all of its AI research and Android, Amazon with a cloud platform, even Microsoft with Windows and Office…

How can you possibly call Tesla not disruptive? They're a shining example of a disruptive company. They're turning the automotive industry on its head. No other company has made any comparable, widespread, viable attempt at a good electric car.

Does the automotive industry appear to you to be on its head? What are the indications? If anything, government subsidies for evs have caused any changes you see more than Tesla itself. I think you might be engaging in a bit of wishful thinking.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#238

Post by haspok » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 4:10 PM UTC

Turing_Machine wrote: post #189

kome wrote: post #42

Hyperloop is such a bad idea on so many levels. Mass transportation is the future: trains, suburban trains and metros. Not cars or "mini metros for cars". Super fast trains are already there. Europe lives in the future compared to the USA.

"Europe lives in the future compared to the USA." Europe is the size of a postage stamp compared to the USA (or even worse, Canada). Oregon is larger than the UK. Texas is larger than France. Alaska is larger than all of Western Europe.

This is false.

Europe North-South is comparable to the US East-West coast distance. Europe East-West is comparable to the US North-South.

The US has more land mass (and there is Alaska, which is the jolly joker card here - we can counterbalance this with the russian-speaking regions of the European continent, it is debatable whether they are "Europe" or not), let's say the lower 48 US is maybe two times the area of "classical" Europe. Europe is also much more densely populated.

So if you consider the USA to be the size of two postage stamps, then you might actually be correct :)

ps. http://www.comparea.org/USA+EU

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#239

Post by njarboe » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 4:23 PM UTC

ascorbic wrote: post #149

stcredzero wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One feature of the transport market (from a mile high view) is that demand is almost infinite. It seems this is also true for cars and trucks. No matter how many roads we build, there is congestion. I think automated cars are going to show that one of the limiting factors to how much our society uses such transportation is the supply of piloting labor. Also to chime in: It's not literally infinite. It's just much hig…

This is known as the Pigou-Knight-Downs Paradox (or Downs-Thomson Paradox). Building new roads creates its own demand. Congestion is a function of the speed of alternative modes of transport, rather than road capacity. This is because when you build a new road that improves journey time, it becomes more appealing to drive. Congestion increases to the point when it becomes quicker to get public transport instead of dr…

You could also just legislate that every time one uses a car you have to stand in a shaking room packed with people for half and hour. I bet that would really cut down on congestion. If not, just up the wait time in the hot box until it does. People, could of course, would have the option pay for someone to do their waiting for them.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#240

Post by stcredzero » Mon, Jul 31, 2017, 4:24 PM UTC

squimmy wrote: post #229

stcredzero wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you could get anywhere in the world in seconds, Star Trek transporter style, then demand would level off. Hell no. People raised on "jump cut" vlog culture will just start jump cutting in real life. (Before anyone takes offense, they should first read Larry Niven's seminal articles about how Sci-fi authors should extrapolate sociological issues, using teleportation as his prime example.)

I'm interested in these articles you mention, but am having trouble finding out more. Do you remember what they were called, or any details about their publication?

They were published in anthologies of his short stories and articles. EDIT: I believe it's in the anthology All the Myriad Ways.