Live data from Hacker News

Cryptocurrency miners are renting Boeing 747s to ship graphics cards

pcgamer.com

131–140 of 162 posts

Re: Cryptocurrency miners are renting Boeing 747s to ship graphics cards

#131
post #64
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A side business I run supplied them with components in 2016. Based on what I shipped them I'd say they deployed some where in the neighborhood of 18,000 graphics cards in 2016 and they were supposedly ramping up to go even bigger in 2017. I don't have any insight into what they are currently up to because that scaling apparently involved hiring a eastern European engineer on the cheap to masquerade as a customer to t…

>I don't have any insight into what they are currently up to because that scaling apparently involved hiring a eastern European engineer on the cheap to masquerade as a customer to try and obtain confidential hardware design details from me so he could rip off my product for them. Sounds like an interesting story here. How did you out him/her?

It was pretty transparent, almost comically so. My business makes adapter boards that let large mining operations reuse power supplies from old server equipment to power their mining operations. Each power supply has a different pin-out and way to turn it on and off many are proprietary and don't have publicly available data sheets. I figure out how they work and design an adapter board with the required logic to operate them safely as a general purpose 12 volt power supply.

The business operates on a model where the customer pays a minimal fee, $100, to purchase a prototype of a new design but I retained the rights to the designs and did all the design, development, and testing on my own dime and then amortize those costs over the life of the product.

So one day they come to me and say they want to start manufacturing at a factory they've made a deal with in China and ask me to give them the design files free of charge. I told them that I wasn't going to just give them the companies IP for free because a lot of work went into developing it etc... but that we could discuss what an appropriate price was if they really were dead set on doing their own manufacturing.

There was some back and forth but their position was that they didn't think there was anything special about the product and the most they were willing to pay for access to the design files and a license to manufacture it in unlimited quantities was $100 per design. I pointed out a number of things that we did the most important of which was making sure the design and materials could safely handle the high current loads the boards had to withstand, etc...

Shortly after I refused their $100 offer as insultingly low I get an email from some guy purporting to be from eastern Europe and saying he was interested in purchasing 500 units. Before he would go through with the purchase he needed to confirm some technical details of the board design because he was "concerned his environment was very hot and dirty". He then went on to ask a list of questions including things like what are the number and thickness of the copper layers in the PCB. These were the exact reasons I had discussed with the Genesis guys as to why our designs had value. At that point I was 99% sure of what was going on. So I responded that we didn't give out those specifics but that we could send him a prototype to test and he never responded.

To satisfy my own curiosity a little while later I used a personal email address to send the guy a message saying that a friend had given me his name and asking if he still did hardware design because I needed some design work done for crypto-currency related projects. A day later I got a response that removed any remaining doubt about what was going on.

Re: Cryptocurrency miners are renting Boeing 747s to ship graphics cards

#132
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, here we are - wasting resources to post trivialities online. Their consumption is generating value, yet our comments are just yelling into the wind.

I can cut down trees and exchange it with my friends as a medium of exchange and call it value. It has no value to the wider economy or world but to us, and even though it has value to my friends it's a terrible, wasteful and unethical way to generate value. I am not generating value, just wasting trees. You just can't create money or value out of nothing. Its linked to utility, markets, labour and the wider economy…

You know that trees are pretty much the definition of a renewable resource, right? As in, I have a large sustainable forestry operation and they are cutting trees down as I type this. I own it, I don't do the work.

That wood builds your house, provides heat, provides jobs, makes dowels, and makes paper - depending on what is harvested. And, it will be able to do so in perpetuity. The process is called TSI and is even able to increase habitats for the animals - they are delicious.

I'm not sure we can have a productive conversation.

Re: Cryptocurrency miners are renting Boeing 747s to ship graphics cards

#133
i just cant wait to see when this whole crypto-concurrency gold rush inevitably collapses.

This is no different from the tulip mania of the 17th century. Yes tulips still have value today and cost something after all but not the absurd amount of money they once fetched.

Re: Cryptocurrency miners are renting Boeing 747s to ship graphics cards

#134
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

closest thing to Bitcoin was gold certificates not the tulip bubble that lasted 2 years. Gold certificates stopped circulating when the US government said so with Executive Order 6102. Bitcoin is not gold to me, gold is a shiny rock, periodic element, and bitcoin is alternative to PayPal with less transaction fees and a better api. That's where I see the value. Programmable money without going through a too-big-to-fa…

>with less transaction fees and a better api Bitcoin has significantly higher transaction fees than paypal and a much less mature, much harder to use API.

Currently, fees are rock bottom, like 3 cents for typical transactions. And it should last, with Segwit's activation very soon.

Re: Cryptocurrency miners are renting Boeing 747s to ship graphics cards

#135
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

closest thing to Bitcoin was gold certificates not the tulip bubble that lasted 2 years. Gold certificates stopped circulating when the US government said so with Executive Order 6102. Bitcoin is not gold to me, gold is a shiny rock, periodic element, and bitcoin is alternative to PayPal with less transaction fees and a better api. That's where I see the value. Programmable money without going through a too-big-to-fa…

>with less transaction fees and a better api Bitcoin has significantly higher transaction fees than paypal and a much less mature, much harder to use API.

You can't send money to multiple people using paypal without being approved by PayPal and with KYC and other regulatory laws there's a lot of friction using paypal send api with bitcoin on the other hand, no permission is needed that is way I think bitcoin has an easier api, I'm not referring to the actual C++ bitcoin api but there are javascript api clients to Bitcoin that are dev friendly. Bitcoin transaction fees are high? (Around $1 per transaction at the moment) versus 2.9% of the total with paypal. It is even cheaper with Ethereum which fall under the bitcoin umbrella.

Re: Cryptocurrency miners are renting Boeing 747s to ship graphics cards

#136
post #118
post #117

If people are this serious, why don't they just set up their mining operation next door to the factory? I imagine the factories are where they are in part because land and power is cheap?

Mining happens where power is cheapest; often near hydropower in agricultural china. Factories are usually in places with good shipping links.

Is electricity there really cheaper than places like Iceland? Aluminium smelters in Iceland tend to get contracts around $3c/kwh, other large clients should be able to get the same.

Re: Cryptocurrency miners are renting Boeing 747s to ship graphics cards

#137
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

closest thing to Bitcoin was gold certificates not the tulip bubble that lasted 2 years. Gold certificates stopped circulating when the US government said so with Executive Order 6102. Bitcoin is not gold to me, gold is a shiny rock, periodic element, and bitcoin is alternative to PayPal with less transaction fees and a better api. That's where I see the value. Programmable money without going through a too-big-to-fa…

Do people really use bitcoin like they use PayPal though? It seems to me that the vast majority of people own bitcoin because they speculate that its value will go up and not to make actual transactions.

19 trillion dollars are in the US stock market, and the total amount of US GDP in 2016 was 18 trillion. We have to stop pretending that the almighty US dollar and the federal reserve is so much better system than bitcoin and the developer community behind it. I bought plane tickets, food and beer with a bitcoin visa debit card and the merchants didn't know the difference but of course the majority of the bitcoin I owned is saved. Saving more than you spend is a good thing.

Re: Cryptocurrency miners are renting Boeing 747s to ship graphics cards

#138
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can cut down trees and exchange it with my friends as a medium of exchange and call it value. It has no value to the wider economy or world but to us, and even though it has value to my friends it's a terrible, wasteful and unethical way to generate value. I am not generating value, just wasting trees. You just can't create money or value out of nothing. Its linked to utility, markets, labour and the wider economy…

You know that trees are pretty much the definition of a renewable resource, right? As in, I have a large sustainable forestry operation and they are cutting trees down as I type this. I own it, I don't do the work. That wood builds your house, provides heat, provides jobs, makes dowels, and makes paper - depending on what is harvested. And, it will be able to do so in perpetuity. The process is called TSI and is even…

The value of wood derives from utility. You can see and understand the utility of wood and yet do not see the absurdity of cutting down trees and burning them as 'proof of work' for zero utility simply because 'you' want to use it as a medium of exchange and speculation?

This is what current crypto currencies are doing. How long before people notice you are wasting wood for no purpose and put a stop to your activities?

Re: Cryptocurrency miners are renting Boeing 747s to ship graphics cards

#139

Imagine all these people wasting time, energy and power, the last of which is a crime against the environment and an affront to good sense at a time of global concern. But when it comes to money, greed and self interest always triumph and there will be dozens stretching logic and apologism as far as it can go. 'Proof of work' has to the most hare-brained, wasteful, anti-environment scheme ever thought of. Responsible…

I didn't do the math, but I think Bitcoin has a lower environmental impact than gold. Literal mining is very messy.

Would your criticism extent to gold?

Re: Cryptocurrency miners are renting Boeing 747s to ship graphics cards

#140

AMD announced the Vega 10 based GPUs today (on sale August 14). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14889357 Apparently they are going to bundle most of them with games and hardware discounts initially, to discourage buy ups by the miners. http://www.anandtech.com/show/11680/radeon-rx-vega-unveiled-... The RX Vega 56 part has 50% higher SP compute per watt than the RX 580 and 570 (50 SP GFLOP/watt), and is only $399…

EDIT: I see these bundles are definitely to limit demand on the early cards. I expect they will keep miners at bay until they start having volume on the single cards. That's fine. Single Point calculations per watt or per second are not really the relevant measure for miners, it's all about memory bandwidth. We will see how these stack up.

Well the results are already available since FE has been out for a while. It was pretty bad tbh but the price on these versions are better. the 100$ is not really enough to matter just an unclassy way to upsell. guess ill have loads of free hardware
Post reply on HN