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Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

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Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#151

Post by comstock »

m_mueller wrote: post #131
balls187 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Car seats are incredibly expensive Not in the US. All carseats undergo strict testing under stringent regulations. While there are some real fancy seats out there, base level models ($50-100) range are safe. More expensive seats have easier adjustments, easy to clean fabric, front/rear-facing modes, and other bells and whistles for parents. For any first time parents in the US, I recommend picking up the latest cop…

For anyone worried about SIDS I'd suggest looking into [1][2]. The counterarguments summed up in [3] seem rather weak to me. If the claim is true that in 10 years no parent following Sprott's method have had a case of SIDS (which no-one seemed to follow up on, even though the study seems quite solid to me), then the counter would have to explain why one should wait instead of just adopting that method. It seems a sim…

Interesting, but it concerns me that the first two citations are not in a very reputable journal:

Journal of Nutritional & Environmental Medicine

In particular it's on this list:

http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/nonrecperiodic...

It also seems that the author of the first article is selling products to prevent SIDS, which is worrying.

Not saying it's without merit. But these things make me want to investigate further...

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#152

Post by comstock »

function_seven wrote: post #100
Inconel wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely an interesting method. I'm always surprised that I don't see more people relying on checklists in day to day tasks. I use checklists religiously at work and have incorporated them into my daily life as well. I have a number of friends who are constantly leaving things behind(cellphones, wallets, house/car keys), I don't think I'm any less of a naturally forgetful person than them, but because I use…

I have a bad habit of forgetting things at home when I leave in the morning. I developed a habit: “Wallet, keys, badge, smokes, phone” I pat the pocket each item should be in as I say it out loud. Unfortunately, I now do this on auto-pilot. I pat the pocket, say the word, leave the house... and realize I don’t have my badge on me when I arrive at work. I’m thinking about installing a card reader that locks me in the…

On Japanese trains, staff use a system called "pointing checking" where you point and say the name of the thing to check that it's been done.

The verbal confirmation seems to help avoid actions becoming automatic.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#153

Post by mysterypie »

Sleeep wrote: post #133
evanpw wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, at least in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-haven_law

No, Safe Haven laws are only for newborns. Nebraska had an accidental experiment by omitting an age limit on their Safe Haven law. Parents drove thousands of miles to abandon their older children until the loophole was closed. https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/03/us/03omaha.html

Good article. The most relevant quote: "Mr. Landry, the state director of children and family services, said parents and guardians were mistaken if they thought they could walk away from their responsibilities. The courts might even order them to pay child support." Furthermore, Nebraska has since changed the law, as you already noted; they permit only babies up to 30 days old.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#154

Post by u801e »

rrdharan wrote: post #150
u801e wrote: post #146

Since 1998, the number of children who died of heatstroke in vehicles has been around 30 to 50 a year [1]. Before that, the number was a bit lower (10 or less) [1]. Around that time, the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) mandate on new vehicles having passenger side airbags as standard equipment came into effect. To address the issue of children dying due to airbag deployments (which were designe…

How many children were dying as a result of the airbag deployments before the recommendation I wonder?

Before the recommendation, the chart I linked in my previous post shows about 60 children died in 1995. More than 30 died each year in 1996 and 1997.

Edit: Updated my answer to answer the question asked instead of citing information about when the airbag mandate came into effect.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#155

Post by cjbprime »

m_mueller wrote: post #131
balls187 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Car seats are incredibly expensive Not in the US. All carseats undergo strict testing under stringent regulations. While there are some real fancy seats out there, base level models ($50-100) range are safe. More expensive seats have easier adjustments, easy to clean fabric, front/rear-facing modes, and other bells and whistles for parents. For any first time parents in the US, I recommend picking up the latest cop…

For anyone worried about SIDS I'd suggest looking into [1][2]. The counterarguments summed up in [3] seem rather weak to me. If the claim is true that in 10 years no parent following Sprott's method have had a case of SIDS (which no-one seemed to follow up on, even though the study seems quite solid to me), then the counter would have to explain why one should wait instead of just adopting that method. It seems a sim…

Looks super quacky. US cot deaths have also massively declined, and the trajectory of the decline matches up with the uptake of back sleeping for infants.

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/15/137859024/rethinking-sids-many...

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#156

Post by [deleted] »

m_mueller wrote: post #131
balls187 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Car seats are incredibly expensive Not in the US. All carseats undergo strict testing under stringent regulations. While there are some real fancy seats out there, base level models ($50-100) range are safe. More expensive seats have easier adjustments, easy to clean fabric, front/rear-facing modes, and other bells and whistles for parents. For any first time parents in the US, I recommend picking up the latest cop…

For anyone worried about SIDS I'd suggest looking into [1][2]. The counterarguments summed up in [3] seem rather weak to me. If the claim is true that in 10 years no parent following Sprott's method have had a case of SIDS (which no-one seemed to follow up on, even though the study seems quite solid to me), then the counter would have to explain why one should wait instead of just adopting that method. It seems a sim…

[deleted]

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#157

Post by m_mueller »

comstock wrote: post #151
m_mueller wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone worried about SIDS I'd suggest looking into [1][2]. The counterarguments summed up in [3] seem rather weak to me. If the claim is true that in 10 years no parent following Sprott's method have had a case of SIDS (which no-one seemed to follow up on, even though the study seems quite solid to me), then the counter would have to explain why one should wait instead of just adopting that method. It seems a sim…

Interesting, but it concerns me that the first two citations are not in a very reputable journal: Journal of Nutritional & Environmental Medicine In particular it's on this list: http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/nonrecperiodic... It also seems that the author of the first article is selling products to prevent SIDS, which is worrying. Not saying it's without merit. But these things make me want to invest…

Good points. All I'd like is for a second independent study to (a) confirm that SIDS is indeed solved in NZ (i.e. it's not just some statistical fluke e.g. due to counting methods) and (b) figure out why it works. Whether it's that particular fungus or not I don't care, as long as the wrapping method works. Supporting evidence, e.g. about mattress handling, IMO lines up well with Sprott / Richardson and is unexplained by the skeptics - all in all I just don't like how quickly the medical establishment seems to have closed the books on this.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#158

Post by will_brown »

rayiner wrote: post #31

This is a great way to analyze the purposes of the criminal justice system. Typically, there are three: punishment, deterrence, and rehabilitation. Prosecuting someone who forgot their kid in the car can't have deterrent effect--to the extent the event was avoidable, the possibility of prosecution couldn't possibly match the deterrent effect created by the risk of harm to the child. Likewise, there is no rehabilitati…

>Likewise, there is no rehabilitative purpose.

I think thats potentially the most important purpose here. The definition being the reintroduction to society, a parent who unintentionally killed their child by locking them in a car needs to go through some sort of treatment, that much is evidenced by the thoughts of suicide the parent developed afterward.

I know HN likes trials and not pleas, but instead of wasting tax payer money on this trial, only for the parent to be found not guilty, they might have cut a plea deal to drop the case upon completion of court ordered therapy and if their are surviving sibilings some parenting classes.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#159

Post by veidr »

rrdharan wrote: post #150
u801e wrote: post #146

Since 1998, the number of children who died of heatstroke in vehicles has been around 30 to 50 a year [1]. Before that, the number was a bit lower (10 or less) [1]. Around that time, the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) mandate on new vehicles having passenger side airbags as standard equipment came into effect. To address the issue of children dying due to airbag deployments (which were designe…

How many children were dying as a result of the airbag deployments before the recommendation I wonder?

EDIT: Oops, I didn't initially notice that the chart in the grandparent post actually lists both airbag and heat fatalities...

---

Good question. As of 1996, it was only 21 total, according to the NY Times[1], but more than half of those were killed in the first 9 months of that year.

In 1999, Car and Driver magazine reported a total of 99 child fatalities. So, low "first-few-google-hits" data quality aside, that seems to show a rapidly rising trend[2].

Next, I got to this horrifying article about a University of Georgia study concluding that the government statistics on airbags are wildly wrong and airbags are actually killing us all[3]. (I gave up my research at this point and will sleep better if the next HN reader that comes along with a little time on their hands debunks that as publicity-seeking bad science that's now been discredited...)

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/1996/09/18/us/more-children-are-kille...

[2] http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/airbags-kill-more-kids-t...

[3] https://phys.org/news/2005-06-airbags-probability-death-acci...

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#160

Post by mLuby »

will_brown wrote: post #158
rayiner wrote: post #31

This is a great way to analyze the purposes of the criminal justice system. Typically, there are three: punishment, deterrence, and rehabilitation. Prosecuting someone who forgot their kid in the car can't have deterrent effect--to the extent the event was avoidable, the possibility of prosecution couldn't possibly match the deterrent effect created by the risk of harm to the child. Likewise, there is no rehabilitati…

>Likewise, there is no rehabilitative purpose. I think thats potentially the most important purpose here. The definition being the reintroduction to society, a parent who unintentionally killed their child by locking them in a car needs to go through some sort of treatment, that much is evidenced by the thoughts of suicide the parent developed afterward. I know HN likes trials and not pleas, but instead of wasting ta…

HN likes trials and not pleas?
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