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Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

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Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#141

Post by mcguire »

0xbear wrote: post #6

Of course it is. It's involuntary manslaughter (that's if you actually did forget, and didn't do it on purpose like some of those people). Punishable by up to 8 years in prison. Don't want to go to prison? Easy: don't leave your toddler alone in a locked car.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/involuntary+ma...

"In most states involuntary manslaughter results from an improper use of reasonable care or skill while performing a legal act, or [...].

"Many states do not define involuntary manslaughter, or define it vaguely in common-law terms. Some jurisdictions describe the amount of Negligence necessary to constitute manslaughter with terms such as criminal negligence, gross negligence, and culpable negligence. The only certainty that can be attached to these terms is that they require more than the ordinary negligence standard in a civil case. With this approach the state does not have to prove that the defendant was aware of the risk.

"Other jurisdictions apply more subjective tests, such as "reckless" or "wanton," to describe the amount of negligence needed to constitute involuntary manslaughter. In this approach the defendant must have personally appreciated a risk and then chosen to take it anyway.

What is the standard of reasonable care in these cases? What specific actions are necessary to demonstrate that reasonable care has been taken? What risk have the people in the article deliberately taken that is not also taken by the majority of parents?

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#142

Post by prawn »

Schwolop wrote: post #103
Inconel wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely an interesting method. I'm always surprised that I don't see more people relying on checklists in day to day tasks. I use checklists religiously at work and have incorporated them into my daily life as well. I have a number of friends who are constantly leaving things behind(cellphones, wallets, house/car keys), I don't think I'm any less of a naturally forgetful person than them, but because I use…

My atheist grandfather taught me the sign of the cross for this reason - "Spectacles, testicles, wallet, and keys."

For those who tend not to forget their testicles, just patting the pockets where you store the wallet and keys works for me. I think of it in terms of a number - day to day, it's three: phone, wallet, keys.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#143

Post by cokeeffekt »

badminton1 wrote: post #113

Leaving a child in a car is similar to allow children to drown in a swimming pool. They're seen differently but they are very similar in terms of negligence and consequences. In my opinion people doing this should be charged with child endangerment.

No this is different, not watching your kids in the swimming pool is a choice, you opened the gate to let them in and chose not to watch them.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#144

Post by huebnerob »

function_seven wrote: post #100
Inconel wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely an interesting method. I'm always surprised that I don't see more people relying on checklists in day to day tasks. I use checklists religiously at work and have incorporated them into my daily life as well. I have a number of friends who are constantly leaving things behind(cellphones, wallets, house/car keys), I don't think I'm any less of a naturally forgetful person than them, but because I use…

I have a bad habit of forgetting things at home when I leave in the morning. I developed a habit: “Wallet, keys, badge, smokes, phone” I pat the pocket each item should be in as I say it out loud. Unfortunately, I now do this on auto-pilot. I pat the pocket, say the word, leave the house... and realize I don’t have my badge on me when I arrive at work. I’m thinking about installing a card reader that locks me in the…

You just need to mandate actual physical contact with the item in question. I won't let my apartment door close until I've jingled my keys in my pocket, has never failed me.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#145

Post by ivanhoe »

rayiner wrote: post #31

This is a great way to analyze the purposes of the criminal justice system. Typically, there are three: punishment, deterrence, and rehabilitation. Prosecuting someone who forgot their kid in the car can't have deterrent effect--to the extent the event was avoidable, the possibility of prosecution couldn't possibly match the deterrent effect created by the risk of harm to the child. Likewise, there is no rehabilitati…

That's a pragmatic theory, but in a reality there's also a little of irrational need for eye-for-an-eye revenge in an act of the punishment of a wrongdoer, people need that to feel that the justice was really met. It's an atavistic urge, lynch mob instinct to hate those who you see as a danger to your group. And yes it's not very rational or ethical, certainly not very civilized, and we can pretend we don't feel that way, but it's a part of a human nature. People who follow the rules expect to see those who break them punished as a proof that the system works; it makes them feel safe and content (and also reinforces social norms, as you've said).

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#146

Post by u801e »

Since 1998, the number of children who died of heatstroke in vehicles has been around 30 to 50 a year [1]. Before that, the number was a bit lower (10 or less) [1]. Around that time, the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) mandate on new vehicles having passenger side airbags as standard equipment came into effect.

To address the issue of children dying due to airbag deployments (which were designed to protect an unbelted 50th percentile size male in a frontal crash), the NHTSA recommended that children in car seats be placed in the rear seats in the vehicle.

Due to the fact that it's much easier to not notice a child in a rear facing car seat in the rear of the car, as opposed to one in the front passenger seat, the number of children who died of heat stroke each year increased from 10 per year to 40 per year.

[1] https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/76289000/gif/...

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#147

Post by toomanybeersies »

rrdharan wrote: post #99
nervousvarun wrote: post #41

As others have said this is a problem that in 2017 should already be solved by technology. But in the event you don't have access to a technological solution try this: If you have an infant in your car get in the habit of taking your shoes off and putting them next to the baby when you drive. When you reach your destination you might forget the infant...but you won't forget your shoes. Edit: My dad (who was an absent…

I like this technique, but sadly it's harder to implement if you have a manual transmission.

I don't see why you can't just drive with bare feet? That's how I usually drive, since I wear flip flops everywhere, and driving with flip flops is a bad idea.

If I'm wearing boots, I'll often drive with bare feet too, depending on the vehicle.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#148

Post by jnordwick »

nervousvarun wrote: post #41

As others have said this is a problem that in 2017 should already be solved by technology. But in the event you don't have access to a technological solution try this: If you have an infant in your car get in the habit of taking your shoes off and putting them next to the baby when you drive. When you reach your destination you might forget the infant...but you won't forget your shoes. Edit: My dad (who was an absent…

Why would you not correct your original statement instead of putting it in an edit footnote? Some people may not read that far and you are giving bad info.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#149

Post by lttlrck »

rrdharan wrote: post #99
nervousvarun wrote: post #41

As others have said this is a problem that in 2017 should already be solved by technology. But in the event you don't have access to a technological solution try this: If you have an infant in your car get in the habit of taking your shoes off and putting them next to the baby when you drive. When you reach your destination you might forget the infant...but you won't forget your shoes. Edit: My dad (who was an absent…

I like this technique, but sadly it's harder to implement if you have a manual transmission.

I learnt to drive in the UK without my shoes for better tactility. It helps.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#150

Post by rrdharan »

u801e wrote: post #146

Since 1998, the number of children who died of heatstroke in vehicles has been around 30 to 50 a year [1]. Before that, the number was a bit lower (10 or less) [1]. Around that time, the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) mandate on new vehicles having passenger side airbags as standard equipment came into effect. To address the issue of children dying due to airbag deployments (which were designe…

How many children were dying as a result of the airbag deployments before the recommendation I wonder?
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