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Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

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Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#91

Post by Inconel »

xur17 wrote: post #83
Inconel wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely an interesting method. I'm always surprised that I don't see more people relying on checklists in day to day tasks. I use checklists religiously at work and have incorporated them into my daily life as well. I have a number of friends who are constantly leaving things behind(cellphones, wallets, house/car keys), I don't think I'm any less of a naturally forgetful person than them, but because I use…

Out of curiosity, what system do you use for recalling / going through your checklists?

Depending on the situation it's a combination of to-do list programs on my phone and computer, I personally use both Google Keep and Todoist, and physical checklists that I either type out and print or hand write.

For the most important checklists, especially at work, I will usually hand write them in addition to using a computer. I'm a stickler for good penmanship and I find that taking the time to make an outline of my checklist and then transposing it to a handwritten pad involves a kind of deliberateness that is both somewhat relaxing and helps insure that I've covered all my bases, while only adding a few minutes to my day.

Less important things may start off as a physical checklist but then once they become second nature enough I just rely on memory. But again, for things where mistakes would result in something more than a minor inconvenience I still use physical checklists. The beauty of these checklists for me is that instead of having to remember 5,10,20 or 50 individual things, I just need to remember one thing, that is to check the checklist.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#92

Post by nervousvarun »

rocqua wrote: post #89
nervousvarun wrote: post #41

As others have said this is a problem that in 2017 should already be solved by technology. But in the event you don't have access to a technological solution try this: If you have an infant in your car get in the habit of taking your shoes off and putting them next to the baby when you drive. When you reach your destination you might forget the infant...but you won't forget your shoes. Edit: My dad (who was an absent…

As horrible as this form of death is, it seems statistically unlikely. I'd wager that there are orders of magnitude between child deaths in cars due to heat and child deaths in cars due to crashes. As such, I don't think an app for this makes sense. I don't think this ranks when looking at the numbers. That said, this must be amongst the worst ways of losing a child, and that is saying something.

I think you're thinking of this from a purely "statistical scope of the problem" perspective and underestimating the value of "emotional commitment of a parent for their children".

If there was an app (would require hardware...some sortof linkup with the child seat) I'd imagine if it was marketed right and there were studies supporting it's effectiveness you could charge an awful lot for it and virtually every parent would buy one. That's gotta be a substantial market. And it's a universal (global) problem.

Car seats are incredibly expensive (actually it's not just car seats...pretty much any 'technology' associated with infants).

Every parent wants peace of mind and I'd venture most would be willing to pay heavily for it.

Edit: On mobile and probably worded this poorly but TLDR: Parents aren't making rational decisions here w/ safety purchases for their kids. They'll spend a lot on something that eliminates a potential life-threatening issue...even if it's statistically rare.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#93

Post by seanmcdirmid »

tarboreus wrote: post #64
thedevil wrote: post #9

It actually is a misdemeanor in my state to leave a child unattended in a car if it's in public and there's risk of "hyperthermia, hypothermia, or dehydration." I looked it up after a stranger hung out at my car to nag me for leaving my son (who refused to leave the car) for five minutes in a locked car in a safe neighborhood in 75f weather.

75 F is not safe. Neither is 65 F. I'm not saying you did something wrong, but what your neighbor did was certainly right

It might not have been right, but it wasn't illegal either (in that state, sure it would be illegal in California).

All of you would probably flip out in Denmark, where kids are left sleeping outside the cafe wrapped up in bassinets while their moms drink coffee. Supposedly the cold outdoor air helps them sleep more soundly.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#94

Post by mywacaday »

There was a case of this happening in Ireland this summer. Happened on the hottest day of the year, fathers first day dropping child at creche, took a call in the car, worked in a quiet part of a industrial estate. Dozens of minor items aligned to cause the death. It was discussed heavily in the office and among friends. At least 30% of people had forgotten to drop a child at creche and noticed the child close to or at work.

I don't think I could judge anyone harshly, all it takes is the odds to go against you once.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#95

Post by thedevil »

tarboreus wrote: post #64
thedevil wrote: post #9

It actually is a misdemeanor in my state to leave a child unattended in a car if it's in public and there's risk of "hyperthermia, hypothermia, or dehydration." I looked it up after a stranger hung out at my car to nag me for leaving my son (who refused to leave the car) for five minutes in a locked car in a safe neighborhood in 75f weather.

75 F is not safe. Neither is 65 F. I'm not saying you did something wrong, but what your neighbor did was certainly right

It was a cloudy day, near sunset, low humidity, the car was slightly cooler than outside, and we were acclimated to higher temperatures.

75 was not only safe, it was comfortable.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#96

Post by aphextron »

pmoriarty wrote: post #18
mcphage wrote: post #4

The possibility of doing this terrifies me more than almost anything—by nature I'm a forgetful person. "Out of sight, out of mind" describes me down to a T.

I don't have children, but my concern for children makes me not want to be in any position of responsibility for them. I've considered becoming a teacher before, and one of the reasons that I didn't was that I just didn't want to be responsibility for the welfare of children. If something ever happened while they were under my care, I'd feel horrible if something happened, even if it wasn't my fault. Not to mention t…

>I don't have children, but my concern for children makes me not want to be in any position of responsibility for them.

To be fair everyone feels this way before having kids. No one is a perfect parent and there is no particular point at which anyone is "ready" to take care of kids. But that being said I think just having that thought is far beyond the consideration that most people put into having children. It comes down (generally) to a selfish desire of simply getting something that you "want", rather than thinking through the consequences of creating another human being.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#97

Post by ouid »

koolba wrote: post #40
rayiner wrote: post #31

This is a great way to analyze the purposes of the criminal justice system. Typically, there are three: punishment, deterrence, and rehabilitation. Prosecuting someone who forgot their kid in the car can't have deterrent effect--to the extent the event was avoidable, the possibility of prosecution couldn't possibly match the deterrent effect created by the risk of harm to the child. Likewise, there is no rehabilitati…

If you replace the victim with a dog instead of his own child, I'd say, " Yes he'd probably do it again. ". That leads to an odd situation where the action that leads to a child's death would warrant a lesser sentence than the same act leading to a dog's death.

not if you consider the loss to be time served.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#98

Post by mcappleton »

0xbear wrote: post #53
rayiner wrote: post #31

This is a great way to analyze the purposes of the criminal justice system. Typically, there are three: punishment, deterrence, and rehabilitation. Prosecuting someone who forgot their kid in the car can't have deterrent effect--to the extent the event was avoidable, the possibility of prosecution couldn't possibly match the deterrent effect created by the risk of harm to the child. Likewise, there is no rehabilitati…

You don't just need to consider whether they would do it again. You also need to consider whether, if he gets off scot free, some unhappy depressed parent will do it on purpose and then claim she "forgot". So in this regard a punishment would both serve as a deterrent and reinforce societal norms.

I believe it's better that some guilty go free if it means that the innocent are not wrongly punished. Wrongly punishing the innocent is terrible and causes so many psychological problems. That's why we have innocent until proven guilty

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#99

Post by rrdharan »

nervousvarun wrote: post #41

As others have said this is a problem that in 2017 should already be solved by technology. But in the event you don't have access to a technological solution try this: If you have an infant in your car get in the habit of taking your shoes off and putting them next to the baby when you drive. When you reach your destination you might forget the infant...but you won't forget your shoes. Edit: My dad (who was an absent…

I like this technique, but sadly it's harder to implement if you have a manual transmission.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#100

Post by function_seven »

Inconel wrote: post #70
nervousvarun wrote: post #41

As others have said this is a problem that in 2017 should already be solved by technology. But in the event you don't have access to a technological solution try this: If you have an infant in your car get in the habit of taking your shoes off and putting them next to the baby when you drive. When you reach your destination you might forget the infant...but you won't forget your shoes. Edit: My dad (who was an absent…

That's definitely an interesting method. I'm always surprised that I don't see more people relying on checklists in day to day tasks. I use checklists religiously at work and have incorporated them into my daily life as well. I have a number of friends who are constantly leaving things behind(cellphones, wallets, house/car keys), I don't think I'm any less of a naturally forgetful person than them, but because I use…

I have a bad habit of forgetting things at home when I leave in the morning. I developed a habit: “Wallet, keys, badge, smokes, phone” I pat the pocket each item should be in as I say it out loud.

Unfortunately, I now do this on auto-pilot. I pat the pocket, say the word, leave the house... and realize I don’t have my badge on me when I arrive at work.

I’m thinking about installing a card reader that locks me in the house if I don’t have my badge :)

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