Live data from Hacker News

Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

washingtonpost.com

81–90 of 234 posts

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#81

I'm astonished to see many comments here on HN (albeit heavily downvoted) saying that if you're a "good parent" then it's easy—just don't forget your child in the car! It's like saying that if you're a "good engineer" then it's easy not to drop your production database instead of the development one—just don't ssh to the wrong host! I thought we were done with this way of thinking. Apparently not. Or maybe people thi…

I don't find it surprising at all.

The difference seems to be rooted in a basic social schism.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#82

I'm astonished to see many comments here on HN (albeit heavily downvoted) saying that if you're a "good parent" then it's easy—just don't forget your child in the car! It's like saying that if you're a "good engineer" then it's easy not to drop your production database instead of the development one—just don't ssh to the wrong host! I thought we were done with this way of thinking. Apparently not. Or maybe people thi…

I agree with what you're saying but I think your last sentence is an important, and somewhat often overlooked, point. You've recognized that this is a mistake than you aren't immune from making and are going to take steps to lessen the risk of it occurring. I think often times this is the difference between good parenting and not so good parenting. It isn't so much that good parents don't make mistakes or forget things, but that they have a system in place to catch these mistakes before they become incredibly serious. This still won't eliminate all mistakes but it should certainly lessen the risk.

From a professional standpoint, while I'm not an engineer I am a technician working in aerospace, I think the same general rules apply. I consider myself pretty darn good at my job and yet I still constantly make mistakes. The trick is to have processes in place that allow you, or someone else, to catch those mistakes before they become irrecoverable. I'd much rather work with someone who makes frequent mistakes but is able to embrace a process meant to identify those mistakes than someone who makes much less frequent mistakes but refuses to adhere to procedures meant to correct mistakes, often out of a sense of arrogance or ego.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#83
post #70

As others have said this is a problem that in 2017 should already be solved by technology. But in the event you don't have access to a technological solution try this: If you have an infant in your car get in the habit of taking your shoes off and putting them next to the baby when you drive. When you reach your destination you might forget the infant...but you won't forget your shoes. Edit: My dad (who was an absent…

That's definitely an interesting method. I'm always surprised that I don't see more people relying on checklists in day to day tasks. I use checklists religiously at work and have incorporated them into my daily life as well. I have a number of friends who are constantly leaving things behind(cellphones, wallets, house/car keys), I don't think I'm any less of a naturally forgetful person than them, but because I use…

Out of curiosity, what system do you use for recalling / going through your checklists?

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#84
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I've read it. Just because you didn't mean to do it doesn't mean it's not a crime. That's why it's called manslaughter and not murder, and that's why it carries a lower penalty.

I don't dispute that it's a crime. The law - and its agents, like Mr. Morrogh - are often wicked enough for that. I disputed the claim that it's easy.

[deleted]

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#85

As others have said this is a problem that in 2017 should already be solved by technology. But in the event you don't have access to a technological solution try this: If you have an infant in your car get in the habit of taking your shoes off and putting them next to the baby when you drive. When you reach your destination you might forget the infant...but you won't forget your shoes. Edit: My dad (who was an absent…

I heard of a similar system (think it was from Mexico) of having a small teddy bear in the glove box, then put him up on the dash when you're driving with your infant in the back.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#86
post #40
post #31

This is a great way to analyze the purposes of the criminal justice system. Typically, there are three: punishment, deterrence, and rehabilitation. Prosecuting someone who forgot their kid in the car can't have deterrent effect--to the extent the event was avoidable, the possibility of prosecution couldn't possibly match the deterrent effect created by the risk of harm to the child. Likewise, there is no rehabilitati…

If you replace the victim with a dog instead of his own child, I'd say, " Yes he'd probably do it again. ". That leads to an odd situation where the action that leads to a child's death would warrant a lesser sentence than the same act leading to a dog's death.

I'm not sure someone who suffers through a dead dog wouldn't learn anything from it. It still seems like a traumatic event, even if the dog isn't a person.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#87
post #40
post #31

This is a great way to analyze the purposes of the criminal justice system. Typically, there are three: punishment, deterrence, and rehabilitation. Prosecuting someone who forgot their kid in the car can't have deterrent effect--to the extent the event was avoidable, the possibility of prosecution couldn't possibly match the deterrent effect created by the risk of harm to the child. Likewise, there is no rehabilitati…

If you replace the victim with a dog instead of his own child, I'd say, " Yes he'd probably do it again. ". That leads to an odd situation where the action that leads to a child's death would warrant a lesser sentence than the same act leading to a dog's death.

Leaving a dog in a car is now the same offense as leaving a child in a car in Australia.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#88
post #40
post #31

This is a great way to analyze the purposes of the criminal justice system. Typically, there are three: punishment, deterrence, and rehabilitation. Prosecuting someone who forgot their kid in the car can't have deterrent effect--to the extent the event was avoidable, the possibility of prosecution couldn't possibly match the deterrent effect created by the risk of harm to the child. Likewise, there is no rehabilitati…

If you replace the victim with a dog instead of his own child, I'd say, " Yes he'd probably do it again. ". That leads to an odd situation where the action that leads to a child's death would warrant a lesser sentence than the same act leading to a dog's death.

The difference is the perceived likelihood of malice or malicious indifference. It is fathomable that people let a dog die in the car because they don't care that much, or because they hate the dog.

People care about their children, and if someone did kill a child like this, with malice, they'd be vilified. Heck, they might even get lynched.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#89

As others have said this is a problem that in 2017 should already be solved by technology. But in the event you don't have access to a technological solution try this: If you have an infant in your car get in the habit of taking your shoes off and putting them next to the baby when you drive. When you reach your destination you might forget the infant...but you won't forget your shoes. Edit: My dad (who was an absent…

As horrible as this form of death is, it seems statistically unlikely. I'd wager that there are orders of magnitude between child deaths in cars due to heat and child deaths in cars due to crashes.

As such, I don't think an app for this makes sense. I don't think this ranks when looking at the numbers. That said, this must be amongst the worst ways of losing a child, and that is saying something.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#90
post #4

The possibility of doing this terrifies me more than almost anything—by nature I'm a forgetful person. "Out of sight, out of mind" describes me down to a T.

my wife used to joke all the time that one day I would end up coming home and when I came into the house she would say 'but..where is our daughter?' and it would turn out I forgot her on the train. Lucky enough never happened. Frankly her mind isn't too focused either.

I can sympathize. I always worry I'll forget my infant son at the grocery store, because I frequently let go of the stroller to get things where the stroller won't fit. It's happened before that I would wander off for 5-10 seconds before remembering my son was with me.

A chest child carrier totally solves that problem.

Post reply on HN