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Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

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Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#71

Post by icebraining »

celticninja wrote: post #63
icebraining wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often carried packs of cigarettes, yet I never smoked in my life.

Do you have a photo of you with a pack of cigarettes that you could access now? Probably not because if you dont smoke you probably dont carry them often enough to be photographed doing so. Also the guy has an iron cross tattoo on the colours of the Confederate flag and an SS tattoo right next to it. Sometimes you should judge people by how they present themselves because that is how they want you to see them. If the…

Do you have a photo of you with a pack of cigarettes that you could access now? Probably not because if you dont smoke you probably dont carry them often enough to be photographed doing so.

Clear survivorship bias. If she didn't have a pack, you probably wouldn't even have known about the picture. So the number of people who carry without getting photographed is irrelevant.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#72

Post by loomer »

Knowing how small children these days already have phones, why don't they just call their parents and tell them they've been left in the car?

Jokes aside, I think the punishment should depend on if the parent had a history of neglecting their child, child abuse and other specifics.

Under any case, even if the parent was otherwise very loving and caring, at the very least they should do community service.

If they had a history of neglect, more serious punishments should be considered.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#73

Post by rayiner »

celticninja wrote: post #54
rayiner wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt there is much correlation between whether your parents are careless/careful and whether you are a shitty human.

Really? You know that abused children are much more likely to become abusers when they are older right? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11731348 Not only is there correlation but there is causation. And it applies not only to sexual abuse but to physical and emotional/mental abuse too. So yes, having shitty parents is more likely to result in children turning into shitty adults. It's not a foregone conclusion but…

But we're not talking about parents who are abusers, we're talking about parents who aren't that responsible.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#74

Post by celticninja »

icebraining wrote: post #71
celticninja wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a photo of you with a pack of cigarettes that you could access now? Probably not because if you dont smoke you probably dont carry them often enough to be photographed doing so. Also the guy has an iron cross tattoo on the colours of the Confederate flag and an SS tattoo right next to it. Sometimes you should judge people by how they present themselves because that is how they want you to see them. If the…

Do you have a photo of you with a pack of cigarettes that you could access now? Probably not because if you dont smoke you probably dont carry them often enough to be photographed doing so. Clear survivorship bias. If she didn't have a pack, you probably wouldn't even have known about the picture. So the number of people who carry without getting photographed is irrelevant.

I'm not sure that is true re: me not knowing about the picture, the cigarettes are hardly the main point of this picture, perhaps a minor bullet point at best.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#75

Post by DanBC »

rayiner wrote: post #73
celticninja wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? You know that abused children are much more likely to become abusers when they are older right? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11731348 Not only is there correlation but there is causation. And it applies not only to sexual abuse but to physical and emotional/mental abuse too. So yes, having shitty parents is more likely to result in children turning into shitty adults. It's not a foregone conclusion but…

But we're not talking about parents who are abusers, we're talking about parents who aren't that responsible.

Neglect is a form of abuse.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#76

Post by peferron »

I'm astonished to see many comments here on HN (albeit heavily downvoted) saying that if you're a "good parent" then it's easy—just don't forget your child in the car!

It's like saying that if you're a "good engineer" then it's easy not to drop your production database instead of the development one—just don't ssh to the wrong host!

I thought we were done with this way of thinking. Apparently not. Or maybe people think that there's this "parent magic" that kicks in and somehow makes you infallible whenever your kids are involved? This sounds so unbelievable I'm not even sure where to start.

My wife and I have a kid on the way and you can be sure we'll have at least a basic process in place to reduce the risk of this happening.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#77

Post by celticninja »

rayiner wrote: post #73
celticninja wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? You know that abused children are much more likely to become abusers when they are older right? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11731348 Not only is there correlation but there is causation. And it applies not only to sexual abuse but to physical and emotional/mental abuse too. So yes, having shitty parents is more likely to result in children turning into shitty adults. It's not a foregone conclusion but…

But we're not talking about parents who are abusers, we're talking about parents who aren't that responsible.

I was responding to your point that "by and large they survive". I agree they survive but how they turn out is related to how they are brought up and so I dont think that we should be setting the bar as low as "they survive".

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#78

Post by rayiner »

celticninja wrote: post #77
rayiner wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we're not talking about parents who are abusers, we're talking about parents who aren't that responsible.

I was responding to your point that "by and large they survive". I agree they survive but how they turn out is related to how they are brought up and so I dont think that we should be setting the bar as low as "they survive".

I don't see what you're trying to get at. Are you saying that people who get accidentally pregnant are more likely to be child abusers? My post was in response to someone who was worried he was too forgetful, etc, to take care of a kid. The fact that some people are "too child abuser" to raise a kid is a red herring.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#79

Post by 0xbear »

icebraining wrote: post #62
0xbear wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't just need to consider whether they would do it again. You also need to consider whether, if he gets off scot free, some unhappy depressed parent will do it on purpose and then claim she "forgot". So in this regard a punishment would both serve as a deterrent and reinforce societal norms.

Doesn't that mean we should do away with involuntary manslaughter? After all, the perpetrator of a murder may claim it was an accident. Of course, you can try to prove that it was intentional - but the same applies here.

Manslaughter is by definition involuntary, look it up in the dictionary. Doesn't mean you won't go to jail for it, unless the jury lets you go.

Re: Forgetting a Child in a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (2009)

#80

Post by icebraining »

0xbear wrote: post #79
icebraining wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't that mean we should do away with involuntary manslaughter? After all, the perpetrator of a murder may claim it was an accident. Of course, you can try to prove that it was intentional - but the same applies here.

Manslaughter is by definition involuntary, look it up in the dictionary. Doesn't mean you won't go to jail for it, unless the jury lets you go.

18 U.S.C. § 1112: Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice.  It is of two kinds:

(1) Voluntary

(2) Involuntary

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