Must answer questions before posting comments to prove you understand news • Hacker News Board

Re: Must answer questions before posting comments to prove you understand news

#71

Post by xorcist » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 6:26 PM UTC

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #64

Next in line : voting at elections. My dream of having people answer 5 simple questions to be allowed to get a voting card would come true. Example of questions: name three neighbour countries, who is the current president, is France in Europe or Asia, what was the last world war,... I understand that this will unfairly remove people who are illiterate, or had a difficult childhood, or are simply dumb but they are ex…

Stupidity has very little political bias, fortunately.

Such questions are rarely useful. They tend to be either trivial to the extreme (such as the continent of France or the first letter in the alphabet), politically opinionated, or more complex than you think. (What was the last world war? You and I might think it was the Cold War but with in depth knowledge would have more nuances to their answer.)

Re: Must answer questions before posting comments to prove you understand news

#72

Post by BrandoElFollito » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

xorcist wrote: post #71

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #64

Next in line : voting at elections. My dream of having people answer 5 simple questions to be allowed to get a voting card would come true. Example of questions: name three neighbour countries, who is the current president, is France in Europe or Asia, what was the last world war,... I understand that this will unfairly remove people who are illiterate, or had a difficult childhood, or are simply dumb but they are ex…

Stupidity has very little political bias, fortunately. Such questions are rarely useful. They tend to be either trivial to the extreme (such as the continent of France or the first letter in the alphabet), politically opinionated, or more complex than you think. (What was the last world war? You and I might think it was the Cold War but with in depth knowledge would have more nuances to their answer.)

This is not a matter of political biais. If someone wants to vote extreme left or right and knows who is the current president - fine.

I do not want biais, I want people who get to vote know the very basics of the world they live in.

Someone who voted X because yeah, the current president is wrong, but this "current president" happens to be a TV celebrity and not the president - such a person does not deserve to have voting rights. You would be surprised where people put France...

Re: Must answer questions before posting comments to prove you understand news

#73

Post by BrandoElFollito » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 6:49 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #69

munchbunny wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, in the US, there's a pretty ugly historical precedent for this practice, and it doesn't leave much faith in people's ability to actually write the questions fairly.

Everywhere anything like this has been done, it has been a travesty. Elitists should have the courage of their convictions, like e.g. ancient Athens had. At least there's less bullshit that way.

Is it being elitist to require someone to know wher your country is located? Or who your president is?

It is not a shame to be illiterare or dumb, or mentally unfit. This does not mean that the future of a country should be put in these people hands. I will never be a pilot because of health issues. I do not see it as discrimination but just the pragmatic reality of this world.

Re: Must answer questions before posting comments to prove you understand news

#74

Post by nsgi » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 7:00 PM UTC

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #72

xorcist wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stupidity has very little political bias, fortunately. Such questions are rarely useful. They tend to be either trivial to the extreme (such as the continent of France or the first letter in the alphabet), politically opinionated, or more complex than you think. (What was the last world war? You and I might think it was the Cold War but with in depth knowledge would have more nuances to their answer.)

This is not a matter of political biais. If someone wants to vote extreme left or right and knows who is the current president - fine. I do not want biais, I want people who get to vote know the very basics of the world they live in. Someone who voted X because yeah, the current president is wrong, but this "current president" happens to be a TV celebrity and not the president - such a person does not deserve to have…

I doubt that a significant number of people wouldn't be able to name the current president. The problem is that anything more complex than that is prone to bias.

Re: Must answer questions before posting comments to prove you understand news

#75

Post by jessaustin » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 7:03 PM UTC

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #73

jessaustin wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere anything like this has been done, it has been a travesty. Elitists should have the courage of their convictions, like e.g. ancient Athens had. At least there's less bullshit that way.

Is it being elitist to require someone to know wher your country is located? Or who your president is? It is not a shame to be illiterare or dumb, or mentally unfit. This does not mean that the future of a country should be put in these people hands. I will never be a pilot because of health issues. I do not see it as discrimination but just the pragmatic reality of this world.

Everyone knows where my country is located and who "my" president is. (I didn't vote for him!) Which country's location and/or president concerns you? If you say "Slovenia" or "Bhutan", then yes it is elitist to think any voter should have to know that location or person.

Re: Must answer questions before posting comments to prove you understand news

#76

Post by jessaustin » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 7:05 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #32

kristopolous wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It split the tent. A ten thousand year old idea. Now poor screwed over urban dwellers and poor screwed over rural dwellers are fiercely blaming each other for messing everything up. Setting up a cycle of blame among the powerless disenfranchised groups is so old and still works so well.

It works well but it does not always end well. Civil wars have been started in this way.

I think those are called "revolutions"?

Re: Must answer questions before posting comments to prove you understand news

#77

Post by nsgi » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 7:06 PM UTC

Boothroid wrote: post #36

MrTonyD wrote: post #7

I've often thought that those who make decisions for society should be required to pass a test to show they understand all sides of an issue. It is absurd to me that politicians are currently allowed to make the wide variety of decisions that they make. I don't think anybody really wants to vote for them to do that. (There was an old episode of Star Trek that had officer candidates use the holodeck to be exposed to a…

I've often thought that apart from the very fewest national security issues all government should be conducted in the open: all cabinet meetings should be public, all political areas should be monitored and the results available to all, and all private political discussion between politicians should be banned on pain of imprisonment. If they've nothing to hide they've nothing to fear, right?

A lot of politicians are close friends. Some are even married to eachother. How is it practical to stop them discussing politics privately?

Re: Must answer questions before posting comments to prove you understand news

#78

Post by pmarreck » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 8:18 PM UTC

ice109 wrote: post #41

pmarreck wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you really want illiterate voters, though?

are you like totally ignorant of how literary tests (and poll taxes) were used to disenfranchise minorities

if all the literate people were male and all the illiterate people were female, requiring literacy would not necessarily be sexism. you're conflating 2 different things. as did they. perhaps it did exclude more recently-emancipated black people. oh well. requiring literacy for something as important as an election is not obstructionist, IMHO

The fee you mentioned, however, is, IMHO.

if I had to hire a scientist for a job and the only applicants that were qualified enough were white males, hiring a white male would not make me a racist sexist.

i look forward to the day when people just stop trying to correlate everything both positive and negative to race, gender, age, and any other attribute other than "are you a good person" and "can you do this job well"

Re: Must answer questions before posting comments to prove you understand news

#79

Post by jacquesm » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 9:43 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #76

jacquesm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works well but it does not always end well. Civil wars have been started in this way.

I think those are called "revolutions"?

Revolutions to me indicate regime change rather than the population fighting itself. France went through a revolution, Yugoslavia through a civil war which led to its breaking up.

What is happening right now pits one fragment of the population against another aka polarization, that's a harbinger of a possible civil war, not of a revolution.

Re: Must answer questions before posting comments to prove you understand news

#80

Post by Myrmornis » Sun, Jul 30, 2017, 11:17 PM UTC

ivanbakel wrote: post #63

Myrmornis wrote: post #20

Great, now how about extending this to voting rights?

Ignoring the ethics: what reason would you have to answer truthfully? Someone could easily circulate the "correct" responses, and then you pass the barrier with basically no difference. What are you going to do, eliminate voting anonymity and chase people up afterwards to see if they can actually answer the way they said they did?

One form of question could be this. Then even if people parrot the right answer, they are still being improved and have to acknowledge their profound wrongness every time they visit the ballot box.

Your child is very sick. Do you

(A) Do what is recommended by peer-reviewed scientific literature, of which one of the central tenets is that you only believe things which are backed up by data and solid arguments.

(B) Do what is recommended by your religion, of which one of the central tenets is that faith is sufficient reason to believe in something, and neither data not solid arguments are needed.