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Hypnotized by Hyperloop

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Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#141

Post by eesmith »

kurthr wrote: post #126
lisper wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem ... isn't ... that the Hyper-loop won't work. Actually, that is the problem. The thermal expansion problem has not yet been solved, or even seriously addressed. Hyperloop proponents are completely ignoring it, giddily betting that a solution will somehow magically present itself because technological optimism always wins. Well, no, it doesn't. The only thing that always wins is the laws of physics.

I thank you for bringing this up and the chance to read about this issue elsewhere, but no it isn't a problem. We have 2000km long gas pipelines. They dont worry about it (on the surface where temperatures actually change). Serpentines work... there are so many solutions that one could be accidentally introduced. I think we're discussing a bikeshed.

Gases don't care about g-forces going through an expansion loop/bend.

We still haven't solved the thermal expansion problem for railroads. Hot weather can cause tracks to buckle. It can also cause roadways to buckle.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#142

Post by chongli »

dalbasal wrote: post #18

One feature of the transport market (from a mile high view) is that demand is almost infinite. If you can get 40kms in 45 minutes, then you can live within 40 miles of work and commute in that time. If you could go 400kms, then that becomes your commuting radius. We've seen people spread this way as earlier mechanized transport was invented. IE, average commute times didn't go down because of faster transport, distan…

demand is almost infinite

Almost infinite but still very much finite. If you could get anywhere in the world in seconds, Star Trek transporter style, then demand would level off. The number of people in the world is finite. Once everyone can get where they need to be as easy as sending a text message, we will have different problems to solve.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#143

Post by stcredzero »

dalbasal wrote: post #18

One feature of the transport market (from a mile high view) is that demand is almost infinite. If you can get 40kms in 45 minutes, then you can live within 40 miles of work and commute in that time. If you could go 400kms, then that becomes your commuting radius. We've seen people spread this way as earlier mechanized transport was invented. IE, average commute times didn't go down because of faster transport, distan…

One feature of the transport market (from a mile high view) is that demand is almost infinite.

It seems this is also true for cars and trucks. No matter how many roads we build, there is congestion. I think automated cars are going to show that one of the limiting factors to how much our society uses such transportation is the supply of piloting labor.

Also to chime in: It's not literally infinite. It's just much higher than the current economy can supply.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#144

Post by stcredzero »

chongli wrote: post #142
dalbasal wrote: post #18

One feature of the transport market (from a mile high view) is that demand is almost infinite. If you can get 40kms in 45 minutes, then you can live within 40 miles of work and commute in that time. If you could go 400kms, then that becomes your commuting radius. We've seen people spread this way as earlier mechanized transport was invented. IE, average commute times didn't go down because of faster transport, distan…

demand is almost infinite Almost infinite but still very much finite. If you could get anywhere in the world in seconds, Star Trek transporter style, then demand would level off. The number of people in the world is finite. Once everyone can get where they need to be as easy as sending a text message, we will have different problems to solve.

If you could get anywhere in the world in seconds, Star Trek transporter style, then demand would level off.

Hell no. People raised on "jump cut" vlog culture will just start jump cutting in real life. (Before anyone takes offense, they should first read Larry Niven's seminal articles about how Sci-fi authors should extrapolate sociological issues, using teleportation as his prime example.)

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#145

Post by easytiger »

kuschku wrote: post #4
easytiger wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have more than one pod?

Do you link them physically, do you have enough braking distances, or do you, as musk suggests, run pods that are separate close enough that in case of a disaster all pods will crash?

I believe they have gaps and the original design had safety stops, breaks, and wheeled propulsion to get you to safety

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#146

Post by legulere »

adventured wrote: post #73
ethn wrote: post #25

The problem with the Hyper-loop and Elon Musk in general, isn't that Elon Musk is wrong or that the Hyper-loop won't work. The problem is that he engages in a nepotistic political-industrial complex. That is, he subsidizes his risk for the benefit of the shareholders and himself at the expense of the taxpayer. The same tax payers who are often in a state of financial uncertainty and destitution of education. The same…

> The same tax payers who know if they get sick, they won't be able to pay for it. You've made a grave mistake in your appeal. The top 40% of income tax payers are paying more than 100% of the total income tax base. The people that specifically do pay a massive share of the tax base, can overwhelmingly afford great health coverage. They're why we still have the health system we have, precisely because the system work…

The top 40% of income tax payers also benefit the most from society.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#147

Post by jacquesm »

dalbasal wrote: post #18

One feature of the transport market (from a mile high view) is that demand is almost infinite. If you can get 40kms in 45 minutes, then you can live within 40 miles of work and commute in that time. If you could go 400kms, then that becomes your commuting radius. We've seen people spread this way as earlier mechanized transport was invented. IE, average commute times didn't go down because of faster transport, distan…

> If I could get to hong kong in 15 minutes, I might go there this afternoon for some dumplings.

I doubt you would because the cost of the trip would make that the most expensive food you ever ate.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#148

Post by jacquesm »

mamon wrote: post #129
puranjay wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with not taking Musk seriously is that his track records shows you can, indeed, take him seriously. His company made a rocket capable of re-entry ffs

As someone else in this thread noticed: so far all Musk did was incremental improvements to existing technologies (electric cars, autopilot, space rockets). He has no track of record of actually creating a new technology.

Except that the established players in those markets did not manage to do any of that stuff. Not a huge Musk fan but still let's give credit where credit is due. I see people that have built two web apps call themselves serial entrepreneur, I think Musk is actually worthy of that title and so far he did deliver the goods.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#149

Post by ascorbic »

stcredzero wrote: post #143
dalbasal wrote: post #18

One feature of the transport market (from a mile high view) is that demand is almost infinite. If you can get 40kms in 45 minutes, then you can live within 40 miles of work and commute in that time. If you could go 400kms, then that becomes your commuting radius. We've seen people spread this way as earlier mechanized transport was invented. IE, average commute times didn't go down because of faster transport, distan…

One feature of the transport market (from a mile high view) is that demand is almost infinite. It seems this is also true for cars and trucks. No matter how many roads we build, there is congestion. I think automated cars are going to show that one of the limiting factors to how much our society uses such transportation is the supply of piloting labor. Also to chime in: It's not literally infinite. It's just much hig…

This is known as the Pigou-Knight-Downs Paradox (or Downs-Thomson Paradox). Building new roads creates its own demand. Congestion is a function of the speed of alternative modes of transport, rather than road capacity. This is because when you build a new road that improves journey time, it becomes more appealing to drive. Congestion increases to the point when it becomes quicker to get public transport instead of driving. If you want to cut congestion, don't build roads, build railways.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#150

Post by getemback »

Someone wrote: post #118
protomyth wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we take two lines (one rail and one hyperloop) and compare the number of people that can be transported in an hour, then we can judge if multiple 12 person pods can transport more/less than trains over the same period. I suspect that pods might have a pretty good shot at winning.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/h... : "Sealed capsules carrying 28 passengers each that travel along the interior of the tube depart on average every 2 minutes from Los Angeles or San Francisco (up to every 30 seconds during peak usage hours)" So, that's 28/pod, not 12. At 30 second intervals, that would be 56 passengers/minute or 3360/hour. For trains, we have ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w…

The difference between conjecture and reality. Musk supposes he can put through 3360 pax/hour. Today we already have rail lines that routinely discharge 100000 pax/hour. We don't need your napkin math because we already know what a rail line can do.
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