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Hypnotized by Hyperloop

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21–30 of 255 posts

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#21

Couldn't finish this. It started off badly by calling the hyperloop "vacuum-powered". First, it's not even vacuum sealed (just low air pressure), and second, how can something even be powered by the vacuum? Are we just throwing terms around for effect here? Then, the author continues with more material errors. The hyperloop/tunnel combo apparently "requires a hard reboot" of the modern city. No it does not. The whole…

The job of a being a good conservative is to push back on every progressive idea.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#22
post #9
post #8

Some hypnotized people think that a Hyperloop in tunnel under the Baltic sea between Stockholm and Helsinki is a good idea - two sparsely populated capital cities of two small countries. http://nordic.businessinsider.com/stockholm-helsinki-hyperlo... Even if it's only there to siphon of some taxpayer's money to someone or another, I just can't fathom how things like this can be allowed to go on. Even if the entire po…

> it will not be economically viable Government projects don't (and shouldn't) have to be "economically viable." They can be services to the citizens with no hope of profitability.

Economically viable doesn't necessarily imply profit. It just means that the benefits of the project (including stuff like making people happy) are at least reasonably comparable to the costs.

I would suggest that for many countries, even 1:1 is a poor standard, simply because there are many ways to spend that are obviously better than that.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#23

For fun, let's say we'd sat Geoff down 20 years ago and asked him to rate the following futures in units of 'preposterousness': "Geoff, how preposterous is it to believe that in 20 years..." 1. We live in a world of self-driving, all electric automobiles, the safest and fastest ever built in mass production. 2. We live in a world where private space companies build profitable space transportation systems that can lan…

Wouldn't Geoff be correct? None of those have materialized. Maybe another 20 years? 3 and 4 still haven't scaled past prototypes and might never exist in quantity.

Despite the down votes, yes Geoff would be correct. We (meaning us the masses) don't live in a world of any of those things yet.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#24
"Musk’s visions are valuable because they show that even people far outside the field of urban planning can be frustrated with the world others have built for us. They, too, should have a say."

That is a good point. Taking Musk and the HyperLoop seriously is a mistake---unless something has changed that hasn't percolate down to me, it has major problems and probably wouldn't solve the problem it purports to solve in the same way the Concord never revolutionized air travel---but it is a valid criticism of the state of things.

On the other hand, if you take it seriously, it distracts attention from actual solutions.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#25
The problem with the Hyper-loop and Elon Musk in general, isn't that Elon Musk is wrong or that the Hyper-loop won't work. The problem is that he engages in a nepotistic political-industrial complex. That is, he subsidizes his risk for the benefit of the shareholders and himself at the expense of the taxpayer. The same tax payers who are often in a state of financial uncertainty and destitution of education. The same tax payers who know if they get sick, they won't be able to pay for it.

The result of this political-industrial complex, at least in this case, is a large benefit to the upper class (not that I'm a classist) who can afford a foray into the city for brunch at the cost of the livelihood of everyone less financially fortunate and vigilant. It is often the case, and continues to be so, that the political-industrial complex taxes everyone for the benefit of the wealthiest.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#26

Couldn't finish this. It started off badly by calling the hyperloop "vacuum-powered". First, it's not even vacuum sealed (just low air pressure), and second, how can something even be powered by the vacuum? Are we just throwing terms around for effect here? Then, the author continues with more material errors. The hyperloop/tunnel combo apparently "requires a hard reboot" of the modern city. No it does not. The whole…

He's writing this to people like you.

As far as I was able to read, not a single mention that Musk has been able to take two or three other previously considered impossible tasks and bring them to completion. Call me a fanboy if you will, but at least my fanboyism is evidence-based.

It's not personal. Musk is not anyone's personal juvenile delinquent (cable TV edit). Why do you care so much whether a single billionaire is validated or not? Why is every time there is an article like this, there's half a dozen Musk fans complaining that someone dare challenge the great Musk?

The fact that we've lost faith in humanity's ability to improve things by taking on large, ambitious projects, even if some, even if most, will fail, saddens me every day. It doesn't prevent me from trying to make the world a better place though, and I hope nobody else was discouraged by low-quality, knee-jerk thinking like this, either.

No, there are simpler questions, like why build inefficient systems like Hyperloops and car sleds when we have tech that works at scale already for the former and we have solutions to the latter that don't require right of way under the most expensive real-estate in the world to build transport systems for transport systems (that Musk just happens to be selling), and will make our urban centers car based for the forseable future when we could be going the other direction?

It's good to praise vision and have heroes but one of the constants of history is that heroes fail (because they're people) and that rate increases as they get further and further outside their original domain. We should be thankful for the visionaries but the way of refining their visions is criticism, not bristling when someone dare do that.

Napoleon ruled the world right up until he didn't.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#27

One feature of the transport market (from a mile high view) is that demand is almost infinite. If you can get 40kms in 45 minutes, then you can live within 40 miles of work and commute in that time. If you could go 400kms, then that becomes your commuting radius. We've seen people spread this way as earlier mechanized transport was invented. IE, average commute times didn't go down because of faster transport, distan…

Yes, but it creates huge economic positive impacts

1. You can live in a less expensive area, (i.e. miles away), and work in a major center. This makes both possible of talent being able to live cheaper, and be able to work where they want (less geographical restrictions), which unlocks greater efficiency of the work place.

2. The alternative? Most people living with few tens of miles of workplaces, prices of living raise up of these hubs, you end up with both more expensive workforce, and less flexibility, and some people just decide to leave. The only winners in this scenario are current landlords.

Right now SF is experiencing scenario #2.

Basically once you have super fast transportation, it relieves pressure to housing prices on the work hubs/city centers, and the values of homes where the high speed train/hyperloop/whatever stops increase to match the new accessibility.

Real Scenarios: You can comfortably live in Baltimore or Philadelphia (2hrs of driving currently) and be able to work in NYC if this commute was cut to 40mins or less.

It is a win win scenario, as all these cities become part of one single hub.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#28

Couldn't finish this. It started off badly by calling the hyperloop "vacuum-powered". First, it's not even vacuum sealed (just low air pressure), and second, how can something even be powered by the vacuum? Are we just throwing terms around for effect here? Then, the author continues with more material errors. The hyperloop/tunnel combo apparently "requires a hard reboot" of the modern city. No it does not. The whole…

>Musk has been able to take two or three other previously considered impossible tasks and bring them to completion

Such as? SpaceX and their reusable rockets might be the closest thing I guess. Tesla and his solar company use pretty conventional technology, on the other hand. He is willing to invest a lot of money, that's true. But when talking about the Hyperloop, it's hardly just his money that's at stake if government is supposed to be involved.

>What's that network you're using to blast this tripe straight to my eyeballs right now?

A network that evolved from humble origins decades ago. Maybe if Musk financed a hyperloop prototype in the desert for a decade and showed its economic viability, then you can make that comparison. But who knows, maybe that's what he plans to do with the government approval he's supposedly gotten - good for him then, hopefully it works.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#29

For fun, let's say we'd sat Geoff down 20 years ago and asked him to rate the following futures in units of 'preposterousness': "Geoff, how preposterous is it to believe that in 20 years..." 1. We live in a world of self-driving, all electric automobiles, the safest and fastest ever built in mass production. 2. We live in a world where private space companies build profitable space transportation systems that can lan…

Wouldn't Geoff be correct? None of those have materialized. Maybe another 20 years? 3 and 4 still haven't scaled past prototypes and might never exist in quantity.

Geoff would be spot on.

Re: Hypnotized by Hyperloop

#30

Couldn't finish this. It started off badly by calling the hyperloop "vacuum-powered". First, it's not even vacuum sealed (just low air pressure), and second, how can something even be powered by the vacuum? Are we just throwing terms around for effect here? Then, the author continues with more material errors. The hyperloop/tunnel combo apparently "requires a hard reboot" of the modern city. No it does not. The whole…

He's writing this to people like you. As far as I was able to read, not a single mention that Musk has been able to take two or three other previously considered impossible tasks and bring them to completion. Call me a fanboy if you will, but at least my fanboyism is evidence-based. It's not personal. Musk is not anyone's personal juvenile delinquent (cable TV edit). Why do you care so much whether a single billionai…

Could care less about challenging Musk's reputation, that's his problem. It's the fallacies of argument. Good engineers are awash in self doubt and questioning.
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