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Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

theguardian.com

21–30 of 94 posts

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#21

Isn't Al Gore rich though? I'm bothered when the elite speak of others as if they're not part of that 1%.

How did he get so rich from a government salary?

The amazing answer: he didn't. He was not wealthy (esp by congressional standards) circa 2000, when he retired from government. After that though, he wrote a few books and cofounded a TV network that was sold to Al Jazeera for 100m.

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#22
post #12

“Our democracy has been hacked.” is something that resonates with me very well. A select group of people have mastered media manipulation and are now acting as puppeteers while we are all in a state of confusion, no longer able to discern truth from disinformation. It is not classic censorship that worries me anymore. It is this constant bombardment with questionable data that we need to figure out how to battle, as…

> questionable data that we need to figure out how to battle The reality of the situation seems obvious to me, even if the edges are not clearly defined. I don't think it's very difficult to work out what is going on (with climate change etc.) To me this is not about people getting access to good data, or being otherwise properly educated. It's about people identifying with "their group", and attacking the "others".…

And in the mean time, other parties will step into our USA internecine war with their own agendas and prey off our pride and ignorance, e.g.: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/china-ra....

[Written from an obvious US viewpoint.]

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#23
Global warming is just the tip of the iceberg (sorry). Seriously though, there are so many ways in which humanity is making the world immeasurably worse and in which our current models of organisation cannot be sustained, and global warming is only one of them. Take for example modern agriculture: we are forced to pour huge amounts of artificial (i.e. not animal manure) fertiliser onto the soil in order to produce enough to feed ourselves. The fertiliser is required due to the extreme pressure we put on the soil i.e. monoculture, expecting a full crop every year, with no fallow periods for recovery. This fertiliser has in some cases to be mined, obviously at some expense in energy terms, from non-renewable resources. The production and usage of the fertiliser consumes large amounts of currently, predominantly, fossil fuels. The fertiliser runs off the soil into the ocean, disrupting the natural balance, with negative side effects on sea life, itself on which many coastal dwelling people depend for food or livelihood. When was the last time you saw this issue discussed in the media?

Sometimes I think that the focus on global warming is negative in that it is far easier for those that stand to lose from wider conciousness about environmental issues, i.e. the usual big business concerns, to counter a single topic than it would be for them to deny the general trend of ongoing worsening and destruction of our natural environment in general. The fact is that western lifestyles cannot be achieved by the whole population of the world without consequent massive pressure on resources. Rather than worrying ourselves solely about global warming I think we would do far better to start reducing consumption, reversing population growth to the point that the world's population starts to decline, and putting efficiency at the heart of humanity's scientific and business endeavours. The chances of this happening? I'd say pretty much zero, because modern capitalism preaches at the altar of inexorable GDP growth, and the rich and powerful aren't going to give up without a fight.

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#24
post #20
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of people's actions have personal gain (be it money, power, recognition, sense of worth, etc...) as their main motive. But it does not make them necessarily wrong or worthless to others.

True, but I would appreciate a little integrity/honesty. He flies all over the world, multiple times in a short time span, and then makes his money "complaining" that we are using fossil fuels, when he could have just as easily been there via a teleconference. I don't mind people that walk the talk, but Al Gore avoids that.

Sadly it does seem to me that there's an large element of ego behind his efforts.

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#25
post #12

“Our democracy has been hacked.” is something that resonates with me very well. A select group of people have mastered media manipulation and are now acting as puppeteers while we are all in a state of confusion, no longer able to discern truth from disinformation. It is not classic censorship that worries me anymore. It is this constant bombardment with questionable data that we need to figure out how to battle, as…

> We need some way to get out of the disinformation bubble

There is even something that came a long time before IT and the resulting disinformation bubble:

Very unhealthy and materialistic values, deeply embedded in our current culture. I.e., we are constantly being told that being rich, being popular and to dominate others is a very desirable target.

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#26
post #11

The very last line of the article explains it all; this is to promote his soon to be release movie. As always, it's about the money.

Frankly, if Al Gore is looking to cash in, another movie about global warming is probably not his best option.

What would you do instead, in his position?

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#27
post #12

“Our democracy has been hacked.” is something that resonates with me very well. A select group of people have mastered media manipulation and are now acting as puppeteers while we are all in a state of confusion, no longer able to discern truth from disinformation. It is not classic censorship that worries me anymore. It is this constant bombardment with questionable data that we need to figure out how to battle, as…

Here's a couple good articles by Scott Adams on things that would convince him on climate change. He mainly focuses on his experience with being able to manipulate models to show whatever you want them to show and what proportion is man-made vs natural.

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/158159613566/how-to-convince-sk...

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/158778029326/how-to-change-my-b...

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#28
post #20
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of people's actions have personal gain (be it money, power, recognition, sense of worth, etc...) as their main motive. But it does not make them necessarily wrong or worthless to others.

True, but I would appreciate a little integrity/honesty. He flies all over the world, multiple times in a short time span, and then makes his money "complaining" that we are using fossil fuels, when he could have just as easily been there via a teleconference. I don't mind people that walk the talk, but Al Gore avoids that.

This is called "tu quoque"[0] or appeal to hypocrisy.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Re: Al Gore: 'The rich have subverted all reason'

#29
post #12

“Our democracy has been hacked.” is something that resonates with me very well. A select group of people have mastered media manipulation and are now acting as puppeteers while we are all in a state of confusion, no longer able to discern truth from disinformation. It is not classic censorship that worries me anymore. It is this constant bombardment with questionable data that we need to figure out how to battle, as…

Here's a couple good articles by Scott Adams on things that would convince him on climate change. He mainly focuses on his experience with being able to manipulate models to show whatever you want them to show and what proportion is man-made vs natural. http://blog.dilbert.com/post/158159613566/how-to-convince-sk... http://blog.dilbert.com/post/158778029326/how-to-change-my-b...

Wow, so here is my otherwise -3 rated first post, it was posted to answer just what you & Scott wrote:

Just in case a preemptive post for all shills and otherwise identity-impaired deniers. Please watch this presentation from Sheffield University: https ://youtu.be/7IbyiOoVgnQ Thank you

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