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Why the feds took down one of Bitcoin’s largest exchanges

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Re: Why the feds took down one of Bitcoin’s largest exchanges

#81

Post by celticninja »

ryanlol wrote: post #58
MichaelGG wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's privacy. Money laundering is a fake crime and propaganda by governments with prosecutors unable to find real crime. It's as bad as calling copyright infringement "theft" or even "piracy", though the later term has been pretty watered down. Or how banks push the idea of "Identity theft" as if someone stole your identity versus the bank failing to verify your identity. We don't call encryption "information launder…

>Money laundering is a fake crime and propaganda by governments with prosecutors unable to find real crime. Absolutely true. I'm a convicted money launderer because I once used a chinese bitcoin exchange instead of an European one. The wires from the Chinese exchange were nothing compared to the EU ones, simply the origin country was enough to justify my conviction.

Conviction in the US?

Re: Why the feds took down one of Bitcoin’s largest exchanges

#82

Post by MichaelGG »

celticninja wrote: post #78
MichaelGG wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I collect money for my illegal pharmacy, then launder it through some retail front, am I not paying all taxes at that point?

You are paying some tax, just not all the required tax. Specifically you are evading income taxes. As I recall in the US at least, there is an option on your IRS form to report any income derived from illegality so that the relevant tax can be paid. Whether anyone has ever done so I don't know but something like that could have kept Capone out of prison.

If you illegally sell $10 worth of drugs, then record your front store of selling $10 of Tylenol (that you don't actually buy or sell) then the $10 of drug money has been fully taxed.

Re: Why the feds took down one of Bitcoin’s largest exchanges

#83

Post by eropple »

MichaelGG wrote: post #79
eropple wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...No? You haven't paid taxes on the first transaction at all.

There wouldn't be a second transaction (the front store) if it weren't for trying to pay taxes on the first. So that's not really a defensible line of reasoning. Only, perhaps, if the tax rates would differ.

It doesn't matter why they exist: they are different transactions and taxes are assessed separately.

Re: Why the feds took down one of Bitcoin’s largest exchanges

#84

Post by brndnmtthws »

0x4f3759df wrote: post #80
brndnmtthws wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monero[1] was created, among other reasons, to solve the privacy problem. It uses something called a ring signature[2], which is composed of a group 'decoy' public keys, plus yours, as part of every transaction which makes it impossible for an outsider to trace. Monero is fungible, whereas Bitcoin is not. [1]: https://getmonero.org/ [2]: https://getmonero.org/resources/moneropedia/ringsignatures.h...

Monero and Dash are both making a play at the anonymous space, do you have an opinion about Monero vs Dash?

As I understand it, Dash doesn't aim to provide privacy in the way that Monero does. The goal of the Dash project seems to be to improve the usability of cryptocurrencies. Both projects, IMO, are doing good work and have their place in the cryptocurrency space.

Here's a fairly detailed StackExchange thread on it: https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/112/how-is-monero...

Re: Why the feds took down one of Bitcoin’s largest exchanges

#85

Post by ryanlol »

celticninja wrote: post #81
ryanlol wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Money laundering is a fake crime and propaganda by governments with prosecutors unable to find real crime. Absolutely true. I'm a convicted money launderer because I once used a chinese bitcoin exchange instead of an European one. The wires from the Chinese exchange were nothing compared to the EU ones, simply the origin country was enough to justify my conviction.

Conviction in the US?

The Nordics.

Re: Why the feds took down one of Bitcoin’s largest exchanges

#86

Post by TheCoelacanth »

rkowalick wrote: post #47
ethbro wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Randomly swapping coins is an attempt to address anonymity. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency_tumbler

This is basically money laundering, right?

Under US law, no.

Money laundering requires the intent to conceal the origin of proceeds from certain specific unlawful activities or to avoid financial reporting requirements. Hiding the origin of lawfully obtained money is legal.

Re: Why the feds took down one of Bitcoin’s largest exchanges

#87

Post by ramchip »

ryanlol wrote: post #58
MichaelGG wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's privacy. Money laundering is a fake crime and propaganda by governments with prosecutors unable to find real crime. It's as bad as calling copyright infringement "theft" or even "piracy", though the later term has been pretty watered down. Or how banks push the idea of "Identity theft" as if someone stole your identity versus the bank failing to verify your identity. We don't call encryption "information launder…

>Money laundering is a fake crime and propaganda by governments with prosecutors unable to find real crime. Absolutely true. I'm a convicted money launderer because I once used a chinese bitcoin exchange instead of an European one. The wires from the Chinese exchange were nothing compared to the EU ones, simply the origin country was enough to justify my conviction.

But why? Was it dirty money somehow?

Re: Why the feds took down one of Bitcoin’s largest exchanges

#88

Post by reefoctopus »

choffman wrote: post #46
chx wrote: post #22

> There are many legitimate uses of Bitcoin What are those. I have claimed here and will repeatedly do so -- there are none. I mean, sure, there are a few companies which integrate the sell-your-bitcoins-buy-our-product in one go but the volume of that is near irrelevant. And no, international transfers do not count as a usage because not only the sender needs to buy bitcoins the seller needs to sell them too...

It is much safer for me to buy things on the Internet with cryptocurrencies than credit cards. It seems like every few months there's a huge leak of customers and credit card information.

I'm a fan of bitcoin, but in this case I disagree. It is safer to sell things on the internet if you accept bitcoin, but it's more risky if you're the buyer. You can chargeback a credit card if you don't get what you paid for. You can't get your bitcoin back.

Re: Why the feds took down one of Bitcoin’s largest exchanges

#89

Post by konschubert »

MichaelGG wrote: post #77
empath75 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People go to prison for it all the time. It's as real as any other crime. If you are acting in a way that's indistinguishable from someone who is attempting to hide evidence of a crime, don't be surprised when people think you are doing something wrong.

I mean it's a made up victimless crime that only serves prosecutors. It's on the moral level of asset seizure and worse than "crimes" like wire fraud. Prosecutors are free to think someone's doing something wrong. Investigators might be able to get warrants under such suspicions (iffy but perhaps acceptable). But they should need to find actual wrongdoing to be able to convict people, and this last part is what is la…

It is only money laundering if is done with money that is the result of a crime.

Just like a trader is only a fence when he trades stolen good.

Therefore, by definition, money laundering is assisting a crime. If the crime had a victim, then, by proxy, laundering the money of the crime is not victimless either.

Re: Why the feds took down one of Bitcoin’s largest exchanges

#90

Post by blubb-fish »

ineedasername wrote: post #8

This is what I never understood about bitcoins's reputation, especially earlier on, about its supposed anonymity. I suppose that's much less the case now. But it always seemed odd that people considered it at all anonymous when the blockchain kept a record of everything. Sure it might not be immediately identifiable with a specific individual, but unless it was a wholly closed system, entry & exit points would always…

check out bitcoin mixing.
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