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Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

nytimes.com

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Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#281

Post by ac29 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #196
rekado wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Apple is going to die if they don't sell in China.

They get what...30-40% of their profits from China? Here is how it would play out: Tim announces they are leaving China, Apple stock loses 90% of its value overnight, Tim is removed as CEO, new CEO comes in and says they are staying in China, Apple stock recovers 70% of its value. So ya, even if Apple isn't selected out, Tim certainly would be. You are suggesting actions that a publicly traded company just cannot mak…

>They get what...30-40% of their profits from China?

~20% in Q117, down 12% from Q116 [0]. China is their only shrinking market (at least at the granularity of data provided).

[0] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q1FY17DataSummary.pdf

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#282

Post by veridies »

xienze wrote: post #269
joecool1029 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, they really can't. Apple's margins depend on Chinese labor to build their hardware. The two companies are very different.

They could stop operating in Saudi Arabia to show their support for gay rights. But again, there's money to be made. Much easier to just slam Trump or whoever.

Saudi Arabia isn't demanding they cripple their products, so selling their products in Saudi Arabia isn't ethically fraught. And Apple isn't spending their time slamming Trump. They're a tech company, not a politician.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#283

Post by 1_2__4 »

coldcode wrote: post #138

You cannot do business in China without doing what they tell you. Period. Either you do it or you leave. I work for a big company (you would all know) and we have a large business unit in China, they own 52% of it. They decide what goes in and how customers can use it. We don't get to decide anything without government approval. It's so easy to claim the West shouldn't do what the leadership of China wants in China,…

> You cannot do business in China without doing what they tell you.

Then

> in reality the only alternative is to abandon China to those who will do what they are ordered to

So the only alternative to doing business there - which requires doing as you're told - is leaving China to only businesses that will do what their told. I'm assuming you didn't mean to say that so can you explain?

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#284

Post by dilap »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #278
dilap wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think the mature thing to do is to cut off an entire country because you disagree with their political system? That seems very extreme to me.

You're proposing a false dichotomy. If the choice is to do evil or leave then they should leave, but is it ? How sure are you that a company with thousands of employees and billions of dollars could not find a third way if sufficient pressure was applied on them to do so, instead of us excusing their defection as reasonable ?

Nah, I don't think it is a false dichotomy in this case. It seems unlikely to me in the extreme that China is going to change its policies in response to pressure from some foreign company, even one as large as Apple.

More generally, I don't think describing countries & cultures that don't share your particular values as evil is reasonable or useful.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#285

Post by 1_2__4 »

gareim wrote: post #215
tziki wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could always do what Google did and abandon China.

Google ended up losing the entire Chinese market to Baidu, who are going to end up being a global competitor, and the general population didn't even care that Google left. Apple learned from this that you could be a big deal in the West, but a nobody in the East.

Google lost nothing. China never had any intention of allowing Google to become dominant in China. That was apparent from day one and comports perfectly with their explicitly stated and demonstrated agenda.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#286

Post by [deleted] »

gareim wrote: post #215
tziki wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could always do what Google did and abandon China.

Google ended up losing the entire Chinese market to Baidu, who are going to end up being a global competitor, and the general population didn't even care that Google left. Apple learned from this that you could be a big deal in the West, but a nobody in the East.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#287

Post by [deleted] »

humanrebar wrote: post #253
FRex wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a fucking strawman, it's the answer of die hard capitalists to every single problem with capitalism - create a company and fix it all, "free market will dictate that the better product wins" and all that jazz. If someone can't afford food or rent that means that he didn't work hard enough for it and doesn't provide 'value'. That's die hard capitalism that enables shit like China to happen and this is all ove…

That's a very particular view of history. The USSR was distinctly not capitalist and it's citizens starved to death in massive numbers. China had the Great Leap Forward. It's a straw man because nobody here thinks poor people deserve to starve to death. In fact my capitalist job allows me to pay taxes and support charities for feeding, clothing, and sheltering the poor.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#288

Post by mark_l_watson »

mauvehaus wrote: post #102

This from the company that removed the headphone jack from their phones while crowing about the "courage" involved in making the decision. I'm not going to pretend to believe that Tim Cook's letter (cited elsewhere) was much more than a PR move in a country they were unlikely to face any substantial consequences for (at least publicly) standing up to the government, or that I really believe that corporations have a r…

I bought my first iPhone this year. No headphone jack but the phone included very nice earphones than use the thunderbolt charging port.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#289

Post by darpa_escapee »

dis-sys wrote: post #275
intro-b wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll notice the same usernames and patterns of argumentation every time there is an article with comments remotely criticizing (or even questioning) China.

So far, most of my comments regarding those "criticizing/questioning" China stuff are mostly about the censorship/GFW, because I strongly believe the GFW is a protectionism tool to protect and grew the Chinese Internet sector. Am I allowed to have my own opinion on that matter when I am a Chinese living in China working in that sector? Maybe your definition of freedom/free speech is a pretty censored one?

> the GFW is a protectionism tool to protect and grew the Chinese Internet sector.

How do you reconcile this belief with the following:

1) The GFW blocks sites and content related to dissident groups and individuals in China, such as Xinjiang and Tibetan independence groups.

2) The GFW blocks sites and content related to Falun Gong.

3) Personal VPN usage will be blocked.

4) Many foreign news sites are blocked.

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