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The difference between iPhone + Android: Great since day one

marco.org

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Re: The difference between iPhone + Android: Great since day one

#91
post #53

That is a retarded argument, and I expect better from marco. It should be obvious that shipping with a broken copy-past is miles better than shipping with none at all. The iPhone wasn't good, because it only shipped with great features - it was medicore, because it shipped without many of the features (flash, copy-past, the ability to run multiple programs at the same time) that are needed. It is much like homework -…

>"It should be obvious that shipping with a broken copy-past is miles better than shipping with none at all."

The problem with shipping broken features is that there is no pressure to fix them. It's much easier to add new features than to fix existing features. Every time there's an update to Android, there's a huge list of neat new things in that release. On the other hand, I've never seen a list of things that didn't work quite well in earlier versions or were a bit janky or a bit confusing or inconsistent or user-unfriendly or complicated, but are now fixed.

Google tries to improve Android by constantly adding new stuff. That's exciting to people like us, but it will never turn Android into something that is as consistent and polished as iOS. The things that bothered me in Android 1.6 are still mostly there in 2.2.

Re: The difference between iPhone + Android: Great since day one

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes a lot more sense to everybody, except for the majority of people who still don't quite understand what a folder is. I agree, I like copying over mp3s and photos, finding out what folder they need to go in, if they have filename restrictions, that sort of thing. I have done that for a long time. I understand that, and find it easy. What I have a problem with is people who think that everybody wants it that way.…

The only things I have to manually copy over to my Droid are music and video. Everything else (photos, contacts, email, docs) is just cached transparently from the cloud. This seems a lot simpler and more user-friendly to me than forcing a user to physically attach to a computer and worry about duplicates, overwrites, stale files etc. Isn't the whole idea to stop forcing users to think about files? The only reason I…

Linux fans always say it’s “getting better”, and there’s always a major distribution update a few months away that’s about to be awesome. But it never is

Re: The difference between iPhone + Android: Great since day one

#93
post #87
post #55

lots of why-is-this-here moments (the Droid’s keyboard, the Nexus One’s trackball) I see this sort of thing from reviews a lot. The Droid's keyboard is there because there are customers who want it. There are plenty of Android phones without them as well. It's perfectly reasonable that some people want a smaller and more sturdy phone, but I won't buy a smartphone without a real keyboard. The trackball is good for pos…

The trackball doubles as a handy-dandy notification light, too.

and triples as an annoying useless trackball

Re: The difference between iPhone + Android: Great since day one

#94
post #4

Apple is great on day one since it doesn't actually have many features. I'm loving my Nexus One here, which has just been updated to 2.2 :) Different ringtones (Anything you like) for sms/email/facebook, tethering, portable hotspot! Flash? Simply in a different league than iPhone. The early Android hardware sucked, but the N1 is pretty solid. >> The Android ecosystem doesn’t seem capable of producing devices that are…

iTunes...ok it can be a right pain.

No removable storage - not an issue for me. My brother has often misplaced his microSD card for his Samsung phone though, so I'm not sure if this is something I'd like.

MP3s: http://www.ehow.com/how_2111958_convert-itunes-mp-mp.html

Copying photos: http://www.macroplant.com/index.php (granted, this feature should be there by default)

The iPhone is a great phone once you jailbreak & unlock it, IMO ;-)

EDIT: Great smartphone comparison chart:

http://lifehacker.com/5575317/smartphone-comparison-chart-di...

Re: The difference between iPhone + Android: Great since day one

#95
post #40
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you even compare the Nexus One to the first generation iPhone? That's like saying "The first computer in existence sucked, my Mac Pro is way better."

I went from iPhone 3G to Nexus One and it was a massive step up. From what I've seen the Nexus One is still far superior in functionality to the iPhone 4.

In what ways?

Re: The difference between iPhone + Android: Great since day one

#96
post #90
post #78

Someone is channeling their inner-John Gruber, apparently. The original iPhone had a mediocre display, a forgettable design, zero apps (and, contrary to the revisionism that is now the rage, had zero plans on every having apps at inception. Apple and AT&T saw apps as a unnecessary risk, and web apps were the only solution), a terrible back-facing camera (and no front facing camera, which in those early days was consi…

I think what Apple is doing usually, and I think that's one of the points Marco is making in the article, is that they only add features when they can get them working very well. They didn't have a use for a front facing camera, or could make it easy enough to use, so they didn't include one. Now they have one because they were finally able to implement video chat in an easy to use way (Face Time). They didn't have c…

>On other phones you have to be a geek to figure out which software to install and how to set it up.

What? No you don't.

>They only introduced the SDK once the API was in a usable state and they got the necessary documentation and infrastructure in place to support 3rd party developers.

I have an acquaintance who has this bizarre tic that when he can't afford or obtain something, and strangely feels defensive about it, he rationalizes his self-perceived inadequacy by claiming that he was intentionally putting off getting whatever he didn't have (girlfriend, BMW, leather couch...the list was endless) until he could have perfection. It is doubly effective, in his mind, because it also subtly denigrate people who did have what he didn't, insinuating that they settle for second best.

Everyone, but apparently him, saw right through it, but it kept him feeling good I guess.

I see this same rationalization with Apple. It essentially opines that if Apple isn't doing something, it isn't because Apple is behind the ball/lacking, it's somehow because everyone else is lacking.

Re: The difference between iPhone + Android: Great since day one

#97
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You completely missed the point of this article, which I find odd because the author clearly explained why he compared Android with desktop Linux. By "Linux on the desktop", he means Linux on regular Joe's desktop, not the hacker's desktop. The author agrees with you that Linux is made for people like you that want/need the extra control, etc, whatever. This is not what the majority are looking for in a desktop distr…

I think it's a little harsh to say that I "completely missed the point" of this article. I get it -- Apple products are very polished and carefully designed and the Android lacks that polish but is feature rich. Is that an accurate description, or did I completely miss something else? Marco is a developer with some very successful products, and I really respect his work. I feel that makes him influential in the hacke…

> I think it's a little harsh to say that I "completely missed the point" of this article. I get it -- Apple products are very polished and carefully designed and the Android lacks that polish but is feature rich. Is that an accurate description, or did I completely miss something else?

What you are missing is that what you are calling "polish" is 90% of the quality of a product to a consumer.

It's not about gradients or drop shadows. It's about saying no in the development process, and making sure everything just works.

To give a counter-example of polish, here is a problem I had on my work machine. It was recently upgraded to Fedora Core 11, a seemingly sensible choice. When I first logged in, the volume control mumbled something about having been deleted. I had a look for another one, only to discover that there is no simple volume control. For some development reason, which I don't give a shit about, someone has removed the existing volume control, and some other subsystem is meant to provide one, but they haven't gotten around to it yet.

That is why Linux on the desktop is dead, and as long as Linux is developed in the bazaar, it will always be dead (but great for geeks!)

Re: The difference between iPhone + Android: Great since day one

#98
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You completely missed the point of this article, which I find odd because the author clearly explained why he compared Android with desktop Linux. By "Linux on the desktop", he means Linux on regular Joe's desktop, not the hacker's desktop. The author agrees with you that Linux is made for people like you that want/need the extra control, etc, whatever. This is not what the majority are looking for in a desktop distr…

I think it's a little harsh to say that I "completely missed the point" of this article. I get it -- Apple products are very polished and carefully designed and the Android lacks that polish but is feature rich. Is that an accurate description, or did I completely miss something else? Marco is a developer with some very successful products, and I really respect his work. I feel that makes him influential in the hacke…

"I really don't want to begin discussing regular Joe's desktop experience -- summarizing people into 2 camps trivializes the actual wants and needs of a computer user."

You can put people into two camps about most anything -- enthusiasts, and everyone else.

This applies to cooking. Cars. Television. Sports. Video games. Interior design. Phones. Music. Architecture. Computers. Gardening. Reading... and I'm running out of objects by looking about my apartment, but the crux is that some people give objects and activities a large amount of attention when compared to the vast majority of the population - that doesn't give a rat's tail about anything beyond the most basic functionality.

Many developers, or at least the ones that frequent forums on computing topics, are just that - enthusiasts. They are very savvy, very passionate, and sometimes considerably out of touch with everyone who doesn't care nearly as much. There's a distinct difference between someone who waits months and months for a specific type of TV to come out, pays 4x as much for it compared to other TVs for its size, and can take advantage of all the features they paid for. This isn't surprising as they've become a bit of a domain expert on the points that relate to their needs. However most people just want the biggest, flattest TV they can buy for the lowest price.

Would I like random mass storage on the iPhone? Sure, why not. My mom? My mother after 17 years still doesn't know what directories her files end up in (Profile\My Documents or \Profile). She has my father assist her in getting her music on her iPod. Recently I said, "Mom, you use a computer every day. You need to remember where (Windows, OS X) puts your files" in which she retorted, "No, I just want to send Lorraine some photos. I don't care how it works."

And that's it. Most people want to just get something done on a computer. Most people just want to drive to the store. Most people just want to have fun with a video game and don't care how critically acclaimed it is. Most people just want a roof over their head that looks familiar when compared to other homes they've been in. Most people just want mustard to put on their hot dog and aren't espousing the qualities of some mustard on online forums. And so forth.

Everyone else is an anorak. And that's fine as there's a market that caters to them, whereas the rest of the population is still plumbing the first 10% of depth. Everyone is passionate about different things. And most people aren't passionate about most things.

Re: The difference between iPhone + Android: Great since day one

#99
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an iPhone for 3 years or so. It was a great device for what it did, but the whole hassle of having to use iTunes. No removable storage. Can't just stuff mp3's on it and use as ringtones. Can't just copy photos off it unless you go through the right software. It's just a PITA. Not to mention the mass of features that are just lacking on the iPhone but you take for granted on Android. Exactly. Mobile doesn't mean…

Yup. And over the air updates are obviously a good idea. I plug my Nexus One into my computer when I want to, not when it needs to be plugged in (Unlike the iPhone). It stands up as a device on its own.

That's what's holding me off on an iPad. Why buy a computer that needs to be plugged into another computer?

Re: The difference between iPhone + Android: Great since day one

#100
post #4

Apple is great on day one since it doesn't actually have many features. I'm loving my Nexus One here, which has just been updated to 2.2 :) Different ringtones (Anything you like) for sms/email/facebook, tethering, portable hotspot! Flash? Simply in a different league than iPhone. The early Android hardware sucked, but the N1 is pretty solid. >> The Android ecosystem doesn’t seem capable of producing devices that are…

iTunes...ok it can be a right pain. No removable storage - not an issue for me. My brother has often misplaced his microSD card for his Samsung phone though, so I'm not sure if this is something I'd like. MP3s: http://www.ehow.com/how_2111958_convert-itunes-mp-mp.html Copying photos: http://www.macroplant.com/index.php (granted, this feature should be there by default) The iPhone is a great phone once you jailbreak &…

I jailbroke, unlocked, had bugs, heard about an update, waited for a new jailbreak to be announced, updated the OS in the hope they'd fix it, jailbroke again, unlocked again.

Personally it was a stupid thing to do, and I wish I never bothered buying the iPhone. I now have an HTC Desire.

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