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Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

nytimes.com

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Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#141

Post by FRex »

joseph4521 wrote: post #107

Seems that Apple is just following, with much delay, the law of People's Republic of China. I don't understand why some people think companies should be above the law.

Because it's a very bad law by a single party government that is a bit notorious by now. Apple also is so big on freedom, rights, LGBT, etc. but at the same time deals with countries that respect none of that.

In any case, go to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14679276 and you'll see people calling for US companies to deny service to all Germans and overthrow their liberal democratic and otherwise stable government that way, all this for just wanting to ban online hate speech that is already illegal everywhere else in Germany.

Just don't say US companies shouldn't topple allied democratic liberal foreign governments that do little to no wrong on their citizens or you'll get downvoted like I did.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#145

Post by simonh »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #119
patrickaljord wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't they forced to follow Chinese laws when doing business there? Not saying what they did is moral but it seems the moral question here is whether they be doing business in China, not whether they should be following the laws while doing business their because they don't really have a choice once they decide to do business there. Google for example doesn't do business there so they don't have to respect censorshi…

There is no such thing as "once they decide". Once you notice that what you are doing is immoral, you have to revise previous decisions. Also, it's not that cut and dry: If your product actually contributes to the wealth of the country, they cannot just ban you without hurting themselves. Just because they legally can, does not mean you don't have any leverage.

How many of Apple's devices are manufactured in China? The Chinese Government could completely cripple Apple in a second. It really isn't Apple that has the leverage.

Censorship is fundamental to Chinese government policy. It's totally non-negotiable. You either do as they say, or you don't operate in China. No negotiation, no compromise. Given the manufacturing situation China has Apple by the short and curlies, and Cooke knows it.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#146

Post by sametmax »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #88
sametmax wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If I'm not mugging the grandma, somebody else will" is the most disingenuous excuse of all.

You're confusing morality and legality, and it seems you're in good company around here. But it's not the role of corporate to white knighting a country cultural revolution. Still, interestig to see a nice quip at a completely wrong scale/context captivate such a large audience.

There is no such thing "the role of a corporate". A company is what you do with it.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#147

Post by drefgert »

Tech companies must play a long political game and spend their vast fortunes to lobby, to own media and influence policy and control the message.

Once they do this the will no longer be in conflict with governments and their policy.

Take note in coming years as the tech barons buy up media to control the message.

They will of course do this and then the real problem will not be uppity governments but mega tech corporations who semi covertly run the world.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#148

Post by ttflee »

kiba wrote: post #122
mauvehaus wrote: post #102

This from the company that removed the headphone jack from their phones while crowing about the "courage" involved in making the decision. I'm not going to pretend to believe that Tim Cook's letter (cited elsewhere) was much more than a PR move in a country they were unlikely to face any substantial consequences for (at least publicly) standing up to the government, or that I really believe that corporations have a r…

Apple follows the law while sending lawyers to do the work necessary to block censorship. How do the law work in China? Is it even possible to block censorship?

A misconception about China is rule-of–law.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#149

Post by rekado »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #91
sametmax wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If I'm not mugging the grandma, somebody else will" is the most disingenuous excuse of all.

When you consider selection, it winds up the same. Say in china if you follow the pollution laws, your competitors will undercut you and they won't suffer any consequences because rule of law is weak. So if you follow the rules, you go out of business, you don't exist anymore, leaving just polluting companies around. Likewise, Apple can play China's game, or just cease to exist in china where someone else will merely…

I don't think Apple is going to die if they don't sell in China.

Re: Apple Removes Apps from China Store That Help Internet Users Evade Censorship

#150

Post by FRex »

Drakim wrote: post #30
threeseed wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not appropriate. Apple is not directly killing people. And in this case they are simply following the law.

What if killing people is "following the law"? It's happened a few times in history. Or if that is too big a pill to swallow, what if collecting runaways is "following the law", when they are to be executed? What about monitoring communication for death penalty offenses? (speaking against the state)

EU actually has a ban in place about drugs exports to make sure they won't be used for lethal injections because death penalty is illegal in EU and illegal or suspended everywhere else in Europe except in Belarus.

Of course EU is satan for banning Nazism online too and should be overthrown by USA companies, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14679276

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