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Robot cracks open safe live on Def Con's stage

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Re: Robot cracks open safe live on Def Con's stage

#21

Post by donavanm »

p4lindromica wrote: post #7
Pinckney wrote: post #2

It's a cool robot, but auto-dialers are a known tool in safecracking. Additionally, the safe in question seems to be a SentrySafe SF082CS, which caries NO security rating from UL. The lowest test rating, RSC, only requires the safe survive a 5 minute attack with hand tools.

How do I find a UL-security-rated safe? Does it matter if I don't bolt it to the floor?

Depends on where you are. UL ratings are used in north america. There are similar EU ratings that I dont recall of hand. TL ratings are for theft/entry resistance. There are other modifiers for fire, water, chemical, etc resistance. Unrated "safes", and even some that are said to be rated, are junk. In NA you want to get in touch with a local safe dealer/specialist. Most of their business is commercial, and they are not the same as a locks ith or "security" company. Moving and installing a safe is a specialist job by itself.

As a sibling commented RSCs are the lowest level and appropriate for home use of low level valuables. Expect $500-1000 and up. TL rated products are almoat always geared towards commercial use. When I was looking a local safe company had a korean made TL-15 with 1 hr fire resistance for about $2500. This was a very bare bones commercial demo/returned unit about 2'x3'x5' interior.

All safes and RSCs must be anchored to the structure on 2 or more sides to be effective. RSCs or "gun safes" will simply be pulled/cut out of the structure if not anchored. TL safes will be knocked over and attacked at the door or floor.

Heres UL testing a safe that probably costs $10,000+ today. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OtbGUbeM860

Re: Robot cracks open safe live on Def Con's stage

#22

Post by Spivak »

DrScump wrote: post #11
thesmallestcat wrote: post #5

Somebody dumb enough to leave a key to their house right next to their house in a city like SF deserves to get burglarized.

Gotta love this attitude, which is widely shared by Bay Area media and law enforcement. - "You shouldn't have parked there. " - "You shouldn't have left anything visible in your vehicle." - "You shouldn't have left anything in visible in the trunk, either." As for "key right next to house" how else do you propose letting agents show your property to prospective buyers or tenants? In SF, property crimes don't matter.…

What do you expect them to do? It wasn't someone you know, it wasn't someone who has a personal motive to kill you, and they don't have any way of determining the owner of the gun.

Would you want to bother investing the case where someone in SF shot at a car and no-one was injured.

Also, give the agent a key and/or get a key box with a pass code and give that to the agent. There really is no excuse to hide a key on the property these days.

Re: Robot cracks open safe live on Def Con's stage

#23

Post by cjensen »

p4lindromica wrote: post #7
Pinckney wrote: post #2

It's a cool robot, but auto-dialers are a known tool in safecracking. Additionally, the safe in question seems to be a SentrySafe SF082CS, which caries NO security rating from UL. The lowest test rating, RSC, only requires the safe survive a 5 minute attack with hand tools.

How do I find a UL-security-rated safe? Does it matter if I don't bolt it to the floor?

I have a friend who cleans up around the Bay. It's fairly common for him to find a safe that's been opened and then discarded as trash. (You'd be surprised at what floats).

So yeah, if your safe isn't bolted down, a burglar will probably just take it with them.

Re: Robot cracks open safe live on Def Con's stage

#24

Post by p4lindromica »

donavanm wrote: post #21
p4lindromica wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I find a UL-security-rated safe? Does it matter if I don't bolt it to the floor?

Depends on where you are. UL ratings are used in north america. There are similar EU ratings that I dont recall of hand. TL ratings are for theft/entry resistance. There are other modifiers for fire, water, chemical, etc resistance. Unrated "safes", and even some that are said to be rated, are junk. In NA you want to get in touch with a local safe dealer/specialist. Most of their business is commercial, and they are…

This leads me to believe that if I am renting an apartment, I am SOL.

Re: Robot cracks open safe live on Def Con's stage

#25

Post by Semiapies »

DrScump wrote: post #11
thesmallestcat wrote: post #5

Somebody dumb enough to leave a key to their house right next to their house in a city like SF deserves to get burglarized.

Gotta love this attitude, which is widely shared by Bay Area media and law enforcement. - "You shouldn't have parked there. " - "You shouldn't have left anything visible in your vehicle." - "You shouldn't have left anything in visible in the trunk, either." As for "key right next to house" how else do you propose letting agents show your property to prospective buyers or tenants? In SF, property crimes don't matter.…

That's a serious pain. :/ Glad you weren't shot, though.

(Is "road eager" auto-correct for something?)

Re: Robot cracks open safe live on Def Con's stage

#26

Post by khedoros1 »

Semiapies wrote: post #25
DrScump wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta love this attitude, which is widely shared by Bay Area media and law enforcement. - "You shouldn't have parked there. " - "You shouldn't have left anything visible in your vehicle." - "You shouldn't have left anything in visible in the trunk, either." As for "key right next to house" how else do you propose letting agents show your property to prospective buyers or tenants? In SF, property crimes don't matter.…

That's a serious pain. :/ Glad you weren't shot, though. (Is "road eager" auto-correct for something?)

"road-rager", I'd guess.

Re: Robot cracks open safe live on Def Con's stage

#27

Post by DrScump »

Semiapies wrote: post #25
DrScump wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta love this attitude, which is widely shared by Bay Area media and law enforcement. - "You shouldn't have parked there. " - "You shouldn't have left anything visible in your vehicle." - "You shouldn't have left anything in visible in the trunk, either." As for "key right next to house" how else do you propose letting agents show your property to prospective buyers or tenants? In SF, property crimes don't matter.…

That's a serious pain. :/ Glad you weren't shot, though. (Is "road eager" auto-correct for something?)

road rager, sorry. Specifically, Dodger fans leaving the Giants game.

Re: Robot cracks open safe live on Def Con's stage

#28

Post by [deleted] »

Semiapies wrote: post #25
DrScump wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta love this attitude, which is widely shared by Bay Area media and law enforcement. - "You shouldn't have parked there. " - "You shouldn't have left anything visible in your vehicle." - "You shouldn't have left anything in visible in the trunk, either." As for "key right next to house" how else do you propose letting agents show your property to prospective buyers or tenants? In SF, property crimes don't matter.…

That's a serious pain. :/ Glad you weren't shot, though. (Is "road eager" auto-correct for something?)

[deleted]

Re: Robot cracks open safe live on Def Con's stage

#29

Post by yarg »

donavanm wrote: post #21
p4lindromica wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I find a UL-security-rated safe? Does it matter if I don't bolt it to the floor?

Depends on where you are. UL ratings are used in north america. There are similar EU ratings that I dont recall of hand. TL ratings are for theft/entry resistance. There are other modifiers for fire, water, chemical, etc resistance. Unrated "safes", and even some that are said to be rated, are junk. In NA you want to get in touch with a local safe dealer/specialist. Most of their business is commercial, and they are…

Would fast and heavy internal gyros be a feasible alternative to bolting? I'm thinking that if the safe cannot be reoriented across all three axis, it'll be very hard to move.

Re: Robot cracks open safe live on Def Con's stage

#30

Post by A_Person »

p4lindromica wrote: post #7
Pinckney wrote: post #2

It's a cool robot, but auto-dialers are a known tool in safecracking. Additionally, the safe in question seems to be a SentrySafe SF082CS, which caries NO security rating from UL. The lowest test rating, RSC, only requires the safe survive a 5 minute attack with hand tools.

How do I find a UL-security-rated safe? Does it matter if I don't bolt it to the floor?

> Does it matter if I don't bolt it to the floor?

It depends on the type of safe. I'm not a locksmith, but I have researched this, and this is how I understand it.

There are "security" safes (aka "burglar" safes), and "fireproof" safes. A security safe should be bolted to the floor, to stop the bad guys ripping it out. It comes with pre-drilled holes for that purpose. However, a fireproof safe should not have any thru-wall holes, since a fireproof safe must protect against the deluge of water that will occur when the fire is put out. Thus, fireproof safes are often glued instead of bolted.

Some time ago, a relative showed me his new safe. It didn't have any pre-drilled holes, so he drilled some in, so he could bolt it to the floor. I chose not to tell him the following: (1) The fact that he could drill any holes in the safe, using his trusty Black & Decker drill, showed that it was a fireproof safe - not a security safe; and (2), drilling those holes destroyed its value as a fireproof safe!

In summary, you need to decide what's most important - theft protection, or fire protection. Those are different types of safes. The problem is they look identical to the untrained eye.

[edit: sp]

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