Live data from Hacker News

Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

medium.com

431–440 of 451 posts

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's more than a whiff of that in the article, for sure. Author at one point is put off Native by having to learn a "more complicated" language, i.e. Swift. It's hard to defend the assertion that Swift is more complicated than JS.

Full disclaimer, Swift is my favourite language by a long shot and I'd love to use it everywhere, but it really is very complicated in some places. Consider, for example, the interaction between generics in structs and classes, and protocols with associated types, and why you have to make stupid type-erasing wrappers like 'AnyObject' and so forth. JS barely even has types at all, let alone generics. There's a lot les…

A good point, won't argue with you. But, at the risk of moving the conversational goalposts, I was thinking about the whole developer experience as much as just the language itself. With Swift, you can live entirely within Apple's frameworks and libraries and be immensely productive. With JS you're going through an entire exercise of flavor and framework selection before you can start writing any code; and those decisions have a massive impact on your app's fundamental design. That's as much what I meant by complexity.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#432
post #4

I think push notifications and offline support are the real killer features that Apple currently doesn't support. It's kind of funny as a web developer because for the longest time Apple seemed to be the one pushing the mobile web forward but now that web apps are reaching for feature parity with native, Apple's initial momentum seems to be ancient history. It seems Apple still thinks of the mobile web as a content d…

I've never met a single end user who wants desktop notifications for web "apps," including myself. In fact I wish I could turn it off globally and more easily. I'm sure there are a number of legitimate uses but as of now, every craptastic "news" website I visit now wants to pester the hell out of me with notifications when they post new clickbait.

Agree 100%

I'd be OK with a small icon in the address bar to indicate push notifications are available on a site but even one pop up asking for permission is too many.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The best product that can be made will never be made with cross-platform tooling. It will always be lacking. My proof for this? Java programs. TCL programs. Electron programs. This is hard to argue for/against, because having one (native or cross-platform) generally precludes you from simultaneously having both (necessary for a proper comparison). Of note: I find Slack's Electron client as good as, if not better tha…

Slack for Mac: Want to right-click a word to look it up like nearly every other Mac application? Nope, you don't get to do that. Want to turn off smart quotes or something similar using the standard method of right-clicking the text entry field? Nope. These things _used_ to work in the Slack app. What happened?

FWIW, I don't have any of those issues in the Linux client. As of right now (in 4 orgs), it's using <10% memory as well, which is a common complaint on other platforms. At least on this platform, I am pleasantly surprised at the quality compared to native apps. I hope it improves on other platforms if there are issues there.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#434

I think a lot of commenters here are missing the point and getting distracted by push notifications (who wants a website spamming them with notifications?) and loading screens (hardly a feature). Apple supporting PWA (Progressive Web Apps) is hugely important because it enables a future where web apps can natively support browser, Mac/Windows/Linux desktop, and mobile iPhone/Android/Windows native mobile with a singl…

Reverse the discussion: I'm a C and C++ programmer with a background in embedded systems. My idea of a development framework is a Makefile, a bunch of headers and .a files. I've got an investment in a lot of libraries I've already written over the years. I want to develop great web applications. Should I feel frustrated that it's not straightforward to use my preferred toolset to build this web app? Should I blame br…

Could always apply to OkCupid. They, crazily enough, build their website with C++.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#435
post #69
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Push notifications? Every single messenger or anything that lets you set reminders. Note that features like push notifications are implemented with a discrete opt-in on every other platform already. Don't want notifications? Just say "Deny" when you're prompted. Offline support? Only if you happen to live in the 99.99% of the world that doesn't have 24/7 perfect WiFi/4G coverage with unlimited data. If you've ever ke…

All of these things are already available in native apps. Putting aside all the business reasons for why Apple wouldn't want to do this, why should Apple spend any time to enable this for web apps? You say the choice is between a web app and no app, and I'm sure on the margin this impacts companies that can't afford to create a native app, but why should Apple cater to the lowest common denominator? Steve Jobs' post…

> "We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform."

Yet those of us old enough to remember the 90s also recall how the openness of the web freed people from the monopolistic behavior of Microsoft. Sure, the web was bad for Microsoft, but great for users.

This whole argument is circular. Web capabilities lag because companies like Apple deliberately drag their feet. Then people like you cite all the advanced features of native development as a reason not to try and use the web. All of which suits Apple fine, since they get 30% of native, and 0% of the web. Apple hobbling PWA is the new "IE-only" website.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I handle playlist creation on my computer, and clone my entire library onto my phone, my playlist files contain relative paths and its pretty seamless.

And you think that's easier than iTunes was in the heyday of the iPod?

Much easier, my music player handles the playlists. My file manager handles the upload.

iTunes is beyond irritating to use, I've not once fired it up and accomplished what I came to do without at least one google search.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many entitlements still require you to buy a certificate from Apple. You cannot, for example, compile and run your own VPN software.

Buy? I've never seen anything to suggest that special entitlements from Apple (KEXT signing on Mac, Network Extension usage on iOS, etc.) requires any payment besides the $100/yr developer program fee

Network Extension doesn't require special entitlement anymore?

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#438
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't you at least consider this a useful use case: Purchase a flight online on a website, but then get a push notification if there is a flight change? Why should we force a user to download an app to support that use case.

Why not just use SMS instead? It's timely, and it works even if the target device is in an overcrowded airport and can't get mobile data.

For privacy reasons, some users would prefer not to give phone numbers. From a provider perspective, sms would become a significant cost if you're sending millions of texts, while push is essentially free.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they are. Web sites are a subset of apps.

No they aren’t. Websites are a subset of documents, not apps.

You're using one right now as a forum, to communicate your thoughts.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they are. Web sites are a subset of apps.

No they aren’t. Websites are a subset of documents, not apps.

C++ files are documents too.
Post reply on HN