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14 Years After Decriminalizing Drugs, Portugal’s Bold Risk Paid Off

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Re: 14 Years After Decriminalizing Drugs, Portugal’s Bold Risk Paid Off

#11

Post by jacquesm »

monksy wrote: post #10
jacquesm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the Nordics have large problems with drug addiction. They are also tracking them quite well so don't compare them to let's say Romania or Bulgaria where tracking is next to non-existent.

Romania did better than Portugal. What are they doing better than Portugal? Why is Portugal's liberal policy on drugs heralded so great when it's not the best of the list? (I'm not saying that it's a bad policy but why is the article focused on pushing that policy?) Also what I want to see: What about Portugal makes it work? Could you test that assertion against a different country if you made the contextual changes…

NL would be good comparison material.

Re: 14 Years After Decriminalizing Drugs, Portugal’s Bold Risk Paid Off

#12

Post by lmickh »

Find it misleading that almost all of the recent articles on this subject talk about decriminalization as the cause for the drop in drug related health issues.

They shifted a significant chunk of money to health services. If it proves anything, it is only that health services can reduce drug related health issues. Without a control, there is nothing to point to regarding criminalization vs decriminalization. People are now paid to go out to drug dens and offer medical help. You can't simply say "people were scared to get help before" when instead you start sending help straight to their location.

Even when an article mentions the change in spending/focus, it is framed in the context of legalizing drugs. No one is making articles titled "After years of improving health services, Portugal's drug policy paid off".

I get that some folks want to legalize drugs, but make an argument for it that doesn't involve this twisting of results to match the desired outcome.

Re: 14 Years After Decriminalizing Drugs, Portugal’s Bold Risk Paid Off

#13

Post by Radle »

lmickh wrote: post #12

Find it misleading that almost all of the recent articles on this subject talk about decriminalization as the cause for the drop in drug related health issues. They shifted a significant chunk of money to health services. If it proves anything, it is only that health services can reduce drug related health issues. Without a control, there is nothing to point to regarding criminalization vs decriminalization. People a…

Well, but it clearly shows that making drugs illegal, does not help at all to keep people save.

Re: 14 Years After Decriminalizing Drugs, Portugal’s Bold Risk Paid Off

#14

Post by aidenn0 »

lmickh wrote: post #12

Find it misleading that almost all of the recent articles on this subject talk about decriminalization as the cause for the drop in drug related health issues. They shifted a significant chunk of money to health services. If it proves anything, it is only that health services can reduce drug related health issues. Without a control, there is nothing to point to regarding criminalization vs decriminalization. People a…

I think regardless of the details of legality, it is strong anecdotal evidence that dollars spent on treatment reduce OD deaths more than dollars spent on enforcement. It adds to a strong body of research that already points in that direction

Re: 14 Years After Decriminalizing Drugs, Portugal’s Bold Risk Paid Off

#15

Post by anigbrowl »

lmickh wrote: post #12

Find it misleading that almost all of the recent articles on this subject talk about decriminalization as the cause for the drop in drug related health issues. They shifted a significant chunk of money to health services. If it proves anything, it is only that health services can reduce drug related health issues. Without a control, there is nothing to point to regarding criminalization vs decriminalization. People a…

They shifted a significant chunk of money to health services.

But everyone knows this, it's the obvious corollary of decriminalization and has been stated over and over.

Re: 14 Years After Decriminalizing Drugs, Portugal’s Bold Risk Paid Off

#16

Post by icebraining »

untangle wrote: post #9

The singular focus on "drug deaths due to overdose" tells an important part of the story, but not the whole story. For example, per Wikipedia, drug use may have doubled after decriminalization.* If so, that's an acceptable tradeoff to me but may not be to others. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

Read a bit further...

The increase in drug use observed among adults in Portugal was not greater than that seen in nearby countries that did not change their drug laws.

Re: 14 Years After Decriminalizing Drugs, Portugal’s Bold Risk Paid Off

#17

Post by gok »

tompazourek wrote: post #5

When I saw the chart I thought, what's wrong with Estonia?

Estonia would make more sense in North America; its overdose rate is right in line with Canada and the US (around 100 and 150 overdose deaths per million people respectively)

Re: 14 Years After Decriminalizing Drugs, Portugal’s Bold Risk Paid Off

#18

Post by lmickh »

aidenn0 wrote: post #14
lmickh wrote: post #12

Find it misleading that almost all of the recent articles on this subject talk about decriminalization as the cause for the drop in drug related health issues. They shifted a significant chunk of money to health services. If it proves anything, it is only that health services can reduce drug related health issues. Without a control, there is nothing to point to regarding criminalization vs decriminalization. People a…

I think regardless of the details of legality, it is strong anecdotal evidence that dollars spent on treatment reduce OD deaths more than dollars spent on enforcement. It adds to a strong body of research that already points in that direction

Yes, it appears to affirm that law enforcement is not the best bang for the buck. There has been plenty of work indicating that like you mentioned. That wasn't a "bold risk".

That is separate from saying that changing the legality of it impacts the usage though. There is not reason to take the result beyond what it indicates.

Re: 14 Years After Decriminalizing Drugs, Portugal’s Bold Risk Paid Off

#19

Post by gozur88 »

drefgert wrote: post #7

The critical part missing from portugals policy is that drugs must be legal to buy and sell (via controlled channels). Decriminalizing use helps, but legalizing sales take out the crime and ensures the health of users through clean product.

I agree with this. Legalization, with regulation, is a workable system. Decriminalization engenders disrespect for the law - there are too many inconsistencies.

Re: 14 Years After Decriminalizing Drugs, Portugal’s Bold Risk Paid Off

#20

Post by icebraining »

gozur88 wrote: post #19
drefgert wrote: post #7

The critical part missing from portugals policy is that drugs must be legal to buy and sell (via controlled channels). Decriminalizing use helps, but legalizing sales take out the crime and ensures the health of users through clean product.

I agree with this. Legalization, with regulation, is a workable system. Decriminalization engenders disrespect for the law - there are too many inconsistencies.

I actually expect the inconsistencies to increase. The legalization (restricted to cannabis) is being introduced as two separate law proposals, for medicinal and recreational uses, so you might end up with just the former, and all it implies in terms of regulation.
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