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Ask HN: Lack of self-discipline driving me hopeless. Tips?

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Re: Ask HN: Lack of self-discipline driving me hopeless. Tips?

#61
post #7

You should absolutely find a psychiatrist or counselor. They deal with people going through this ALL. THE. TIME. I absolutely believe that people run to medications too quickly these days, but drugs like Adderall et al. help people like you to find focus, break self-destructive patterns, and get back to a baseline of normal.

I have considered addrell many many times only to hear from close friends that it will turn me into a bot. That's kept me away from it but perhaps I should reconsider...again.

I tried Adderall for slight ADD for about three weeks when I was an undergrad, and found the initial effect very helpful, but I could feel it degrading even over just two weeks.

That convinced me was an extremely temporary solution at best, so temporary as to not even be worth it.

Later I was walking through Barnes and Nobel and found a book on speed reading in the bargain bin:

http://www.amazon.com/Evelyn-Seven-Day-Reading-Learning-Prog...

Bought it, read it, learned it (somewhat, I still can't read a page a second), and found it improved my focus and concentration (at least on reading and programming) more than anything I'd ever tried, even Adderall.

That may or may not help you, but I'm a believer now.

Re: Ask HN: Lack of self-discipline driving me hopeless. Tips?

#62
post #22
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can personally attest to the exact opposite. Aderall literally turned my life around. That doesn't mean that it will do the same for you of course. Just remember that everyone's different and that what works for you may not work for your friends.

Could you elaborate how adderall effected you? Totally understand if you can't but just in case! Thanks a lot.

Amphetamines (Adderall, Vyvanse, Dexedrine) and methylphenidate (Ritalin/Concerta) are powerful stimulants. They'll give you plenty of energy and ability to focus. This explains why they are rather commonly used by students and other folks.

The life changing aspect, for me, is that they can sometimes break me out a depressive episode. I'll have days sitting around, desperately wanting to work on something, but ending up watching TV, eating, and sleeping. This of course makes me feel bad about having not done anything, which just worsens the situation.

Stimulants can change that. Apart from the energy and focus, they often propel me into doing something. I've taken them, feeling pessimistic and resigning myself to another day of sitting around. But they'll kick in, I'll pull up my laptop, and code 8+ hours straight. That bit of progress alone is enough sometimes to break out of the depressive streak and get on with things.

But please, before starting any medications, make sure you have a psychologist to monitor you. Do not underestimate suicidal thoughts. The closest I've been to suicide is when I tried out an anti-depressive. Medication that can pull you out of depression can also provide you the energy and willpower to follow through with suicide.

Re: Ask HN: Lack of self-discipline driving me hopeless. Tips?

#63
Read P.J. Eby's "Thinking Things Done". It's unfinished, but chapters 1-7 are very good. You have to sign up for his mailing list to receive them. I found out about this from http://lesswrong.com/lw/21r/pain_and_gain_motivation/

Consider spending a lot of time alone, or at least outside any institution for a while. Hell is other people. It's hard for me to think clearly when other people's thoughts are an important part of my day.

Consider meditating. (See the recently posted "Mindfulness in Plain English"). I just started, but I'm already getting the same euphoric level of concentration that I get from programming.

Re: Ask HN: Lack of self-discipline driving me hopeless. Tips?

#64
post #31

I have said this 3 times on here already, however, it has been so effective I feel its worth sharing again. This is the only thing that has worked for me and it worked fantastically: 1) Start with some Black Tea. In my experience the caffeine in black tea causes less of crash than coffee. 2) Hemmingways Hack: http://www.secondactive.com/2009/08/boost-your-productivity-... 3) And the Pomodoro Technique http://www.pomo…

Also try green tea. I find the caffeine stimulus a little stronger and more mentally soothing than black tea, but the side effects are no worse.

Re: Ask HN: Lack of self-discipline driving me hopeless. Tips?

#65
post #63

Read P.J. Eby's "Thinking Things Done". It's unfinished, but chapters 1-7 are very good. You have to sign up for his mailing list to receive them. I found out about this from http://lesswrong.com/lw/21r/pain_and_gain_motivation/ Consider spending a lot of time alone, or at least outside any institution for a while. Hell is other people. It's hard for me to think clearly when other people's thoughts are an important p…

Interesting resources, thanks!

Re: Ask HN: Lack of self-discipline driving me hopeless. Tips?

#66

Dude, you don't have ADD. You aren't bipolar. You're a normal young man -- or at least within the range of normal for young men. Forget therapists. Forget drugs. Forget everything you've been told, and join the Army. Seriously. Trust me. Yes, yes, I know that you don't know me. But you're describing me in this post, and a lot of guys I knew back when I was in: Smart guys, but bored. Can't concentrate in class. Can't…

"you will have plenty of time to kill yourself"

And plenty of opportunities, too, I suppose.

Isn't there another way than becoming a soldier? I was going to suggest going traveling, for example a hike over several weeks. That would also be physically demanding and good for focus.

I tend to agree with the "normal young man" thesis.

Re: Ask HN: Lack of self-discipline driving me hopeless. Tips?

#67
post #35

I'm only bringing this up because no-one did but read up on bipolar disorder and see if any of it clicks with you. There's a wide spectrum of bipolar disorders (it's not all just super mania and super depression) and what you're saying sounds like it could be connected to this (the flip flopping, the doing OK one moment, not so good the next). Of particular interest should be bipolar II: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Yeah I've read up on it and it's one of my default "jokes" to new friends("dude! you've no idea how bipolar I am")--only they don't know that I am not really joking. Still I have a lot of stigma about officially getting tested for this stuff.

It took three places coming to the same diagnosis for me to really accept I had bipolar disorder . I was convinced I was just hyperactive and just wanted an RX for Ritalin. Even now, I still can't bring myself to take the mood stabiliser meds (lithium, valproic acid). But seeing a psychologist has been one of the best things I've ever done for myself.

The thing is, bipolar disorder can get worse over time. It's not uncommon for people to get help only way after things have gone to shit. Why waste time? If it's really BPD, it's not just gonna go away. Might as well go to a doctor now -- at least that way you can be fully informed.

Re: Ask HN: Lack of self-discipline driving me hopeless. Tips?

#68

Dude, you don't have ADD. You aren't bipolar. You're a normal young man -- or at least within the range of normal for young men. Forget therapists. Forget drugs. Forget everything you've been told, and join the Army. Seriously. Trust me. Yes, yes, I know that you don't know me. But you're describing me in this post, and a lot of guys I knew back when I was in: Smart guys, but bored. Can't concentrate in class. Can't…

I have a similar story as the OP, and have given serious thought to enlisting.

There's one problem: I don't want to get shot or blown up. Joining the army would mean going where I'm actively wanted dead. Am I wrong?

Re: Ask HN: Lack of self-discipline driving me hopeless. Tips?

#69
post #31

I have said this 3 times on here already, however, it has been so effective I feel its worth sharing again. This is the only thing that has worked for me and it worked fantastically: 1) Start with some Black Tea. In my experience the caffeine in black tea causes less of crash than coffee. 2) Hemmingways Hack: http://www.secondactive.com/2009/08/boost-your-productivity-... 3) And the Pomodoro Technique http://www.pomo…

Bringing up Hemmingway to a suicidal person seems kind of cruel, no?

Re: Ask HN: Lack of self-discipline driving me hopeless. Tips?

#70
post #35

I'm only bringing this up because no-one did but read up on bipolar disorder and see if any of it clicks with you. There's a wide spectrum of bipolar disorders (it's not all just super mania and super depression) and what you're saying sounds like it could be connected to this (the flip flopping, the doing OK one moment, not so good the next). Of particular interest should be bipolar II: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Yeah I've read up on it and it's one of my default "jokes" to new friends("dude! you've no idea how bipolar I am")--only they don't know that I am not really joking. Still I have a lot of stigma about officially getting tested for this stuff.

Funny this should come up because I'm also a 23 year old university student (undergrad) and I started medication for bipolar II a week and a half ago.

I've had similar problems with focus and discipline. I've tried alleviating them by exercising (working out with the ROTC at 6 AM), eating well, making important commitments, doing Buddhist mindfulness exercises, listening to Eckhart Tolle, writing myself a contract that I signed in front of my friends/classmates, trying to create a startup with some good friends, and many other things that typically ended in (painful) failure. I had successes here and there, but the mental effort required to hang on until the end was often huge.

I have the tendency to make commitments and create relationships when I'm in one of my highs, and then proceed to fumble them when I inevitably reach a low. I dropped 2 semesters of college before I looked for professional help.

I started by seeing a therapist, not an MD. I found the sessions beneficial and they helped me get through a rough patch, but after two months things weren't really coming together. At my therapist's discretion, I saw a psychiatrist. I told him my situation in it's entirety. I didn't let myself think about trying to save face. I told him the grittiest details if I thought they were important for him to understand what I was going through.

I definitely had strong misgivings before making that step. For me the worst was "What if everyone goes through the same difficulties, and I'm just weak and cowardly?" However, my track record clearly showed I needed help. It was mostly a matter of allowing myself to be humble enough to accept it.

After only a week and a half of taking Seroquel, it's hard for me to say how it's going and where it's going to take me. Early though it is, I've noticed a change for the better. I like to think it's a temporary solution, like the way that you would put a tarp over a hole in your roof before you actually get it repaired.

Psychiatrists and therapists see people for things like this all the time. It's familiar territory for them. I could have saved myself a lot of heartache if I'd gotten professional help sooner.

Best of luck

- Another dude

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