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China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

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Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#141

Post by AstralStorm »

tormeh wrote: post #92
gwern wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to say. Within 10 years there can't be any immediate consequences simply because even super-prodigy kids won't make any real contributions to anything before age 15 or so, but the financial markets can still price in future returns. On the other hand, scaling up is a huge challenge - even if 100% of East Asian parents wanted to do embryo selection and were willing to pay full price up front and plan reproduction…

>On the other hand, scaling up is a huge challenge - even if 100% of East Asian parents wanted to do embryo selection and were willing to pay full price up front and plan reproduction around it, it simply wouldn't be possible because there aren't enough fertility clinics or trained doctors That's what I want to get in on. Whoever can offer genetical engineering to Chinese parents first is going to be the new Google.

Hopefully they won't be called VersaLife.

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#142

Post by AstralStorm »

tormeh wrote: post #21
HiroshiSan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is a high IQ enough to determine 'success'?

No. The most important factors, in diminishing order, are: Grit, intelligence, beauty, education. But if you read the article, they're not really selecting for IQ itself, but academic success, so that covers all of the factors, just weighed.

It depends on how you define intelligence. If you go broad, grit and such are part of it.

A broad definition is ability to solve problems. Beauty is outside it unless it really solves some problem... which it well might in some occupations.

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#144

Post by HowardMei »

magic_beans wrote: post #125
HowardMei wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, since the booming of Conficius, generations of Chinese has been wasting their IQ and suffering from rationality-reality inconsistence. Increasing IQ without reforming the culture is just a mean to crush opponents in Chinese social darwin scheme.

I'm very interested by this. What is it about Chinese culture that is oppressive to people with high IQs?

Turn any rational debate into a moral debate [good people vs. bad people] and appeal to authority/majority [to get the good people tag].

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#145

Post by circlefavshape »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #41
le-mark wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you're really plugged into this. Is there really a contingent out there that thinks Gattaca[1] is a desirable outcome? Edit; citing the movie as a widely known example of a stratified society with both engineered and non engineered humans. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca

Me. In general, the less intelligent people are, the less they contribute to society. I'd rather live in an engineered society with engineered people. The primary problem to solve is discrimination against non-engineered people. That problem was the only reason Gattaca was so dystopian. As long as there are controls in place that make it difficult, it should be possible to move forward with engineering humans in a pr…

> In general, the less intelligent people are, the less they contribute to society

Do you have any data to back this up? Do you have a reliable measure of "contribution to society"?

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#146

Post by CyberDildonics »

jack9 wrote: post #8
CyberDildonics wrote: post #5

This article is a train wreck of nonsense, misunderstanding and predictions of the future. It is just talking about research of finding correlation in genomes and intelligence. Also Japan is the largest holder of US treasuries, followed closely by china.

> Also Japan is the largest holder of US treasuries, followed closely by china. What's the point of that? 2017 is not 2013.

Was it different then and now?

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#147

Post by sharemywin »

astrange wrote: post #88
jandrese wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not sufficient, but arguably necessary. There are roughly three things that make you successful: 1. Being smart 2. Working hard 3. Opportunity Everybody can do #2, but most won't. #1 is at least partially genetic. #3 is mostly luck, but is influenced by the other two. In fact all of the factors influence one another to a degree. Being born in an area with good schools and working hard can overcome somewhat defic…

#2 is also genetic. Stamina and attention span count for a lot.

Nature versus nurture either way it's all your parents fault...lol.

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#148

Post by 794CD01 »

yters wrote: post #100
794CD01 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're free to quit your job and go empty peoples' trash if you really find it so much more meaningful.

His lack of nobility does not invalidate his argument. Arguably, many of the most despised jobs are most important. None of the elite would or could do them, and without society would fall apart. On the other hand, a very large percentage of elite jobs could be eliminated without ill effect. Our role as the elite is to elevate and recognize their worth, and not sink them to our moral level.

Then this is a poor example. I can certainly empty my own trash - I do that at home. It's far more efficient to have one person with no education or special skills come around and collect everyone's trash into a big container once per day than to have hundreds of skilled, expensive employees empty their own trash when it gets full.

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#149

Post by CyberDildonics »

pcnonpc wrote: post #10
CyberDildonics wrote: post #5

This article is a train wreck of nonsense, misunderstanding and predictions of the future. It is just talking about research of finding correlation in genomes and intelligence. Also Japan is the largest holder of US treasuries, followed closely by china.

The East Asian culture strongly values intelligence and education. The parents there WILL act on embryo selection and genetic engineering when it is available and safe.

The point is that the article is taking bits of research into simple correlation and extrapolating that into embryo selection, guesses about IQ points being raised and all sorts of other things. It shouldn't be taken seriously in any way.

> The parents there WILL act on embryo selection and genetic engineering when it is available and safe.

It seems a bit of a reach to be so adamantly sure of what other people will do in an already predicted future.

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#150

Post by themeiguoren »

andreyf wrote: post #52

I wonder how they define intelligence. I suspect the cognitive traits that will serve an economy best in 30-40 years, when these babies reach the top of their economic productivity, are not what one might expect today.

So I was one of the volunteers for this study - they accepted people based on a threshold of an official IQ test, or SAT/ACT scores. I forget if it was 99th percentile or higher. I heard about it on LessWrong way back while they were soliciting volunteers, and signed up as a way to get a free genotyping since my SAT was high enough.

I lost the email thread, but I didn't get my genome data back for about 2 years (April 2015). The researcher I was talking to seemed frustrated at some pretty large delays in the project.

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