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High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

ucl.ac.uk

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Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#61

Post by loxs »

colechristensen wrote: post #54
rybosome wrote: post #3

I'm curious if this includes unprocessed fructose, glucose, lactose, etc. I eat quite a bit of fruit, but my refined sugar intake is much lower than it used to be due to making an effort to cut sugary things out of my life (unless eaten with intention).

What bothers me is there's no magical "processing" that does anything to these simple sugars. Fructose is... a 20 atom molecule? There's no magical processing that makes that molecule any different inside a fruit or in honey or in corn syrup. So either the problem is the characteristics of a single food item (ratio of sugar, fiber, fat, etc.), some magical byproduct of processing that makes up a very tiny fraction of…

One factor that may be in play here is speed of absorption. "Non-processed" sugars are often inside the cells of the plants and take time to digest and absorb. The result is lower peak sugar concentration in the blood which does not require strong insulin response by the body.

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#62

Post by DiThi »

cageface wrote: post #47
iamt2 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The link between meat and...diabetes...is very well established now. There is a group of Type 2 diabetics in remission who are doing just fine on meat-based and keto-based diets, with no medication. If meat was a causal contributing factor to diabetes, I wouldn't expect to see that. We do eat a lot of leafy greens, it isn't like all-meat-all-the-time. But fresh meat, simply prepared, eaten to the protein macros app…

Avoiding processed foods, both animal and plant, is a good idea. But the links between diabetes and animal products are pretty well established: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/why-is-meat-a-risk-factor-f... https://nutritionfacts.org/video/diabetes-as-a-disease-of-fa... You might want to have a look at this book too: https://www.amazon.com/Neal-Barnards-Program-Reversing-Diabe...

> But the links between diabetes and animal products are pretty well established

How was the link determined? I'd like to see the number of studies that studied people with low carb diets. Carbs is in pretty much everything nowadays, and it's really difficult to find people that consumes Or people that eat only once a day.

Very related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14831224

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#63

Post by DiThi »

cageface wrote: post #59
invisible wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've switched to a diet that is mostly plant based with small portions of meat occasionally and low carb intake. I don't agree that "plant based" is the reason you feel better but I do think not eating huge quantities of meat and carbohydrates/sugar causes your body to be a little more accommodating.

The link between consumption of saturated fat and cholesterol with cardiovascular disease is extremely well established so I don't think it's a coincidence that I feel this much better after cutting them out of my diet.

The link is not well established at all, esp. considering the studies of the last decade or two.

https://lifeforbusypeople.com/2016/08/24/why-anti-fat-is-com...

Industrial meat is not exactly good, though, it has all kinds of issues but the fat and cholesterol aren't a problem.

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#64

Post by DiThi »

colechristensen wrote: post #54
rybosome wrote: post #3

I'm curious if this includes unprocessed fructose, glucose, lactose, etc. I eat quite a bit of fruit, but my refined sugar intake is much lower than it used to be due to making an effort to cut sugary things out of my life (unless eaten with intention).

What bothers me is there's no magical "processing" that does anything to these simple sugars. Fructose is... a 20 atom molecule? There's no magical processing that makes that molecule any different inside a fruit or in honey or in corn syrup. So either the problem is the characteristics of a single food item (ratio of sugar, fiber, fat, etc.), some magical byproduct of processing that makes up a very tiny fraction of…

Yep, fructose is exactly the same in an apple or in candy. It's not "processing" it what makes it bad. Unless by "processing" you mean isolating it so you eat it without the fiber of the apple.

Fructose doesn't satiate, while fiber does, and it slows down absorption of fructose as well.

For the same reason, fruit juice is pretty much liquid candy with vitamins.

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#65

Post by cageface »

DiThi wrote: post #63
cageface wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link between consumption of saturated fat and cholesterol with cardiovascular disease is extremely well established so I don't think it's a coincidence that I feel this much better after cutting them out of my diet.

The link is not well established at all, esp. considering the studies of the last decade or two. https://lifeforbusypeople.com/2016/08/24/why-anti-fat-is-com... Industrial meat is not exactly good, though, it has all kinds of issues but the fat and cholesterol aren't a problem.

Fat and cholesterol are very much a problem, despite what a lot of vested interests would like you to believe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmKv1m2SVio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBtfzd43t8o

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#66

Post by DiThi »

cageface wrote: post #65
DiThi wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link is not well established at all, esp. considering the studies of the last decade or two. https://lifeforbusypeople.com/2016/08/24/why-anti-fat-is-com... Industrial meat is not exactly good, though, it has all kinds of issues but the fat and cholesterol aren't a problem.

Fat and cholesterol are very much a problem, despite what a lot of vested interests would like you to believe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmKv1m2SVio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBtfzd43t8o

The vast majority of the studies mentioned in those videos are old, where most researchers could get away with hacking the P values [0]. A lot of studies done in the last decade contradict the older ones (the article I linked earlier is full of sources). Also correlation is not causation. In how many of those studies controlled the amount of carbs? Because the combination is very important [1]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42QuXLucH3Q

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14831224

Edit: Looking at the last link of your first video, it acknowledges low carb diets are beneficial short and medium term, but there's very little literature for long term. It concludes low carbs are bad long term... but you must see the table on page 13 to see how they reached that conclusion. The "low carb score" group still had a crazily high 37-42% of carbs (compared to LCHF diets which are usually 5% carbs), it had more smokers and all of them had trans fats (very dangerous but can be easily avoided altogether).

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#67

Post by tylerhou »

boombip wrote: post #15
QuercusMax wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mental disorders are also correlated with sleep problems; sleep-deprived brains often crave sugar. This might also be another avenue for causation.

> This might also be another avenue for causation. If people with mental disorders were more sleep-deprived and then consumed more sugar, wouldn't that also show up in the data? > Although the study looked for this link, it was not seen in the data: men and women with mental disorders were not more likely to consume more sugar. A causal A > B > C link would look similar (data-wise) to a A > C link.

Not if A => B for only a small population of A. But in that case, you still might see a C => A link.

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#68

Post by vldx »

e40 wrote: post #14
kolinko wrote: post #5

It might be just as well that increased sugar intake is caused by mental disorders, as a form of self-medication. In my case for example, my sugar consumption fell drastically since I received ADHD medications. It turns out I was using sugar as a stimulant/calming agent for years, and no doctor properly figured it out.

Without a doubt I have used sugar as medication, many times in my life. My hypothesis: people that had a lot of sugar as a young person, perhaps in particular ways or situations, has trained their brain to release dopamine in response to sugar. Everyone I know that had little sugar as a young person doesn't get the medicinal value of sugar.

My hypothesis: people are not trained as a young person to seek pleasure, they're genetically programmed to do so; many (most?) modern "foods" are engineered and designed to short-wire various naturally evolved systems by introducing artificial stimulus, thus creating closed feedback loops. The baseline is amended upwards with each iteration, and what was normal yesterday is under stimulating now.

> [...] Scientists call this phenomenon, “supernormal stimulus.” It is what happens when an exaggerated version of what appeals to evolutionary instincts can cause some one or some thing to engage in behavior counterproductive to its own survival (or the survival of its genes).

MORE!

http://joyousandswift.org/hyperstimulus/

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#69

Post by invisible »

cageface wrote: post #59
invisible wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've switched to a diet that is mostly plant based with small portions of meat occasionally and low carb intake. I don't agree that "plant based" is the reason you feel better but I do think not eating huge quantities of meat and carbohydrates/sugar causes your body to be a little more accommodating.

The link between consumption of saturated fat and cholesterol with cardiovascular disease is extremely well established so I don't think it's a coincidence that I feel this much better after cutting them out of my diet.

I'm fairly sure that "diets" are not scientifically proven in any way. I just said I disagreed with you on your conclusions (which are anecdotal). I was suggesting that over-consumption of anything (but especially things that are harder to digest, process, store) MAY cause your body to feel like shit.

Re: High refined sugar intake linked to a 23% higher risk of mental disorders

#70

Post by e40 »

vldx wrote: post #68
e40 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without a doubt I have used sugar as medication, many times in my life. My hypothesis: people that had a lot of sugar as a young person, perhaps in particular ways or situations, has trained their brain to release dopamine in response to sugar. Everyone I know that had little sugar as a young person doesn't get the medicinal value of sugar.

My hypothesis: people are not trained as a young person to seek pleasure, they're genetically programmed to do so; many (most?) modern "foods" are engineered and designed to short-wire various naturally evolved systems by introducing artificial stimulus, thus creating closed feedback loops. The baseline is amended upwards with each iteration, and what was normal yesterday is under stimulating now. > [...] Scientists…

That link is very interesting. Thanks.
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