No comment.
http://twitter.com/li0n/status/17199037259
Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case
111–120 of 122 posts
Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's rather rude of you and that previous commentor to assert such things. A company does not 'deceive' its customers just because you think the service they offer is useless and could only possibly be sold as a result of grandiose claims of effectiveness and other false pretenses. In fact, in this day and age, large parts of the worlds still work the same way they worked ten years ago. Time and time again, w…
Sending businesses invoices that are not really invoices until you read the fine print is scammy, even if the majority will never get paid it is essentially hoping for administrative people not being 'on the ball' enough to realize what they're doing. Big corporations invented 'purchase orders' for that reason so they're fairly well protected, but the smaller companies that outsource their books because they're too b…
I understand all that; it's besides the point. The point is that there is no reason to assume that this specific company engaged in such behavior.
Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're confusing Hashrocket, the web development company, with United Directories, the company being charged. The people being charged are essentially initial investors. Pointing a finger at Hashrocket in this scenario is not unlike blaming every startup that was invested in by an angel or VC that later ended up involved in fraudulent activity. None of this means that Hashrocket is not at all at fault, but based on t…
Aren't those people charged executives of Hashrocket as well?
On second look I have to concede that I could be under-rating their authority. To be fair major investors will often sit on boards, but there's no need for me to make further conjecture.
A fellow who comments here http://avramc.posterous.com/united-directories-federal-court... makes a similar claim from a much more advantaged position of knowledge.
Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case
#114Deceptive marketing is not illegal per se, but intent to deceive (a question of fact, based on the type of marketing used) is illegal. However, this is difficult to prove.
Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case
#115Importantly: 1) Hashrocket has absolutely nothing to do with the criminal complaint 2) In the USA people are innocent until proven guilty Now if you're interested in this case, read on... There are hundreds of independent yellow pages (including Yellow Pages United) that legally use the term Yellow Pages and the "walking fingers" logo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Pages My partners have been doing direct mail…
Accusations stain, opinions leave scar's and acquittal does not completely clean or heal.
Chose to remember, on this 4th of July, all the people who have given their lives so that the laws of our land can be properly exacted between the guilty and the innocent.
Chose to allow the courts to decide if United Directories crossed the line between legal and not.
Chose to wait. Chose to trust. Chose to say good things or nothing at all.
Because in the end, accusations stain, opinions leave scar's and acquittal does not completely clean or heal.
Chose to never abandon a relationship unless you can accuse them from first-hand knowledge and then do it face to face in private.
I have no first hand knowledge. Do you?
Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case
#116The facts of the case are being skewed far from reality. It is sad that innocent until proven guilty seems to have been lost in the rumor mill. Even in a court room at times today that seemed to be the case. Mark and Marian provided seed money for Hashrocket and founded the company with Obie. They also own a separate company called United Directories that provides a paper and online business listing service. The comp…
Well, Adam, the facts are that your friends are running what can best be characterized as a shady business. Perhaps they didn't break the law, but I find it saddening to see Hashrocket folks fall over themselves to defend business practices such as these. Makes one question what kind of business-ethics Hashrocket encourages, doesn't it? I think it's a bit much to suggest that your friend's business is just an innocen…
My goal was simply to relay some of the facts that came out of sitting through a round of court proceedings. One of the main things being that a lot of what was put in the complaint seemed to be just plain wrong. That being said my intent was not to defend the industry or the business model. I got out of recruiting early in my career because I couldn't tolerate all the shady practices and lack of ethics in that industry. I simply ask that everyone give them the courtesy of due process and not condemn the hardworking employees of Hashrocket for something they had nothing to do with. We are a separate company in a totally different industry. We are self sufficient financially and have been for some time now. We have always and will continue to pursue the highest level craftsmanship in our development and complete transparency in working with our clients.
Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sending businesses invoices that are not really invoices until you read the fine print is scammy, even if the majority will never get paid it is essentially hoping for administrative people not being 'on the ball' enough to realize what they're doing. Big corporations invented 'purchase orders' for that reason so they're fairly well protected, but the smaller companies that outsource their books because they're too b…
I understand all that; it's besides the point. The point is that there is no reason to assume that this specific company engaged in such behavior.
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Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case
#118Importantly: 1) Hashrocket has absolutely nothing to do with the criminal complaint 2) In the USA people are innocent until proven guilty Now if you're interested in this case, read on... There are hundreds of independent yellow pages (including Yellow Pages United) that legally use the term Yellow Pages and the "walking fingers" logo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Pages My partners have been doing direct mail…
Accusations stain, opinions leave scar's and acquittal does not completely clean or heal. Chose to remember, on this 4th of July, all the people who have given their lives so that the laws of our land can be properly exacted between the guilty and the innocent. Chose to allow the courts to decide if United Directories crossed the line between legal and not. Chose to wait. Chose to trust. Chose to say good things or n…
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Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case
#119I don't really care if a company wants to be "hip" or whatever, but title's like "Chief Morale Officer, in charge of alchohol and fun activities" just make you look like idiots.
Eh, not really. Companies like Zappos has titles like this, but nobody thinks the author of "Delivering Happiness" is an idiot.
I dunno about that. They just sold to Amazon because they were running out of money.
Exactly how much revenue does a competent CEO need to accumulate before they can turn a profit and become solvent? Tony marketed his way to $1 billion with borrowed money, but it's shameful to have the much revenue and run out of funds.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/201...
Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Eh, not really. Companies like Zappos has titles like this, but nobody thinks the author of "Delivering Happiness" is an idiot.
I dunno about that. They just sold to Amazon because they were running out of money. Exactly how much revenue does a competent CEO need to accumulate before they can turn a profit and become solvent? Tony marketed his way to $1 billion with borrowed money, but it's shameful to have the much revenue and run out of funds. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/201...
Well, to be fair, most of the borrowed money came from his own pocket, which is why he ended up owning more than 40% of zappos (probably more that 50% if you include venture frogs' 36% involvement).
Most boards hate companies who spend extravagantly on their employees. For example, even though Google is doing great, quite a few of their board members hate how Eric Schmidt feeds Google employees so well. According to a few I know at google, they had to pull back a few items on the menu to keep the board happy. Most boards are just after profits and don't really see the connection to employee happiness.
In fact, there was a YC company board who rejected the purchase of an expensive espresso machine just because the employees wanted it... that destroyed employee morale for the next 2-3 months, and also caused traffic to go down. Eventually the board gave in and bought the company the espresso machine and it really paid off -- employees were happy, traffic rebounded, and board members actually stated that they wished they knew this earlier. Won't say which YC company, but it was a talk from one of the YC dinners during my round.
tl;dr: Boards are always after the cash and rarely see the connection to keeping employees happy, yet time after time they make the same stupid mistakes.