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SpaceX Is Now One of the World’s Most Valuable Privately Held Companies

nytimes.com

31–40 of 303 posts

Re: SpaceX Is Now One of the World’s Most Valuable Privately Held Companies

#31
post #4

> Mr. Musk faces competition from another billionaire. Blue Origin, a rocket company founded by Jeff Bezos, the chief executive of Amazon, aims to send tourists and supplies into space. Is that line even close to true? Last I heard Blue Origin was years away from revenue and far behind SpaceX in terms of capability and manufacturing.

I'm a big fan of both companies, but having watched them grow I think the answer to whether or not it is true that Blue Origin is a competitor is, "No, yes, maybe?" If SpaceX can get Falcon Heavy to work then no, so much of the oxygen will be sucked out of the launch services market that Blue Origin will be hard pressed to compete. At that point. I see them much more likely as a ULA acquisition to insure engine suppl…

I believe I read about a month or so ago that Bezos plans on selling ~$1 billion worth of stock annually to fund BO, I could be misremembering the exact figures though. Even at that burn rate, assuming Amazon continues to do well, I don't think it will be too much of a drain on his wealth. Plus, he seems like a pretty long term thinker so I don't think he'll throw in the towel even in FH captures a big chunk of heavy lift. BO is currently investing around $200 million in a new production facility in Huntsville. I'd say it's more likely that Boeing/LockMart try to rid themselves of ULA than ULA acquiring BO.

Re: SpaceX Is Now One of the World’s Most Valuable Privately Held Companies

#32
post #10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being publicly traded means you become slave to shareholders. Their profit is ALL that matters.

Well, yes. That's the entire point of a corporation.

Sure, but on what timeframe? That's why small family businesses are some of the longest enduring - because their owners want them to generate earnings indefinitely. Investors who buy shares are often looking for much shorter term gains (1-5 years) and will put pressure on the board to sacrifice long term viability for a short term boost in share price.

Re: SpaceX Is Now One of the World’s Most Valuable Privately Held Companies

#33
post #24

Is a private company's value akin to a public one's market capitalization? How is this determined?

It's different in that publicly traded company market caps are usually based on the value of common stock. The valuation touted in headlines for private companies is usually the implied value of a new, privileged block of stock. The common stock is not valued at the same amount.

But, only IPO all those special classes of stock convert to common stock. So in the success case, yes, valuation and market cap are eventually consistent.

Re: SpaceX Is Now One of the World’s Most Valuable Privately Held Companies

#34
post #4

> Mr. Musk faces competition from another billionaire. Blue Origin, a rocket company founded by Jeff Bezos, the chief executive of Amazon, aims to send tourists and supplies into space. Is that line even close to true? Last I heard Blue Origin was years away from revenue and far behind SpaceX in terms of capability and manufacturing.

This interview with Tom Mueller (CTO of SpaceX) suggests that competitors have had to go back to the drawing board after seeing SpaceX accomplish wrt their low cost systems.

https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/6b043z/tom_mueller_...

That rocket is going to be the real game-changer. I would say that the Falcon 9 is evolutionary, you know, a reusable rocket that greatly reduces the cost of access to space. Maybe we can achieve ten reduction in cost over, you know, like what ULA or the Russians or the Chinese are doing, with the Falcon. But we want like a hundred or more reduction in costs; and that’s what the Mars rocket’s gonna do. That’s going to be the revolutionary rocket.

So once we’re flying that, all other rockets will probably be obsolete. Likely Blue Origin is working on a fully-reusable rocket But we’ve really changed this industry that the other guys are really scrambling. It’s pretty funny to watch this, because when we first started the company 15 years ago, my fifteen-year anniversary was Monday, May 1st. Thank you.

We started the company on May 1st, 2002. Well, I started there; I consider—. Elon incorporated the company I think in February, but he didn’t have any employees yet. But I consider when he had his first employees when he had his company. But anyway, over the fifteen years, we’ve gotten, you know, this far; and when I was first hiring people, you know, that’s when I heard money to develop this rocket. And then we built the Falcon 1, which had a single Merlin engine on it, could throw about 1k lbs into LEO; and they said, you guys, you guys were able to build a small rocket. But you’ll never be able to build an EELV-class, EELV-mission class rocket. And so we built the Falcon 9 and started flying it. And they said you’d never be able to reuse it; you’ll never be able to get to the space station. And at some point, you stop listening to it. And I think it’s great, you know, if people think what you’re doing is impossible then you must be doing the right thing. You can still find the YouTube video online where people are critiquing our recovery thing as being photoshopped or CGI’d. That’s pretty high praise, when people don’t actually believe you’re doing.

And you know, we were ridiculed by the other big companies in the launch vehicle business. At first, they ignored us; and then they fought us; and then they— we found out; they found out that they couldn’t really win in a fair fight because we were successful and we were, you know, factors of two or three or probably even five lower costs than what they can do. So then it becomes an unfair fight, where they, you know, try to destroy you politically, and use other means. And then at some point, they figure out that they’ve got to do what you’re doing. So there’s a lot of talk at these other companies about how they’ll make reusable rockets; recover the engines, recover the stages, come up with a much lower-cost rocket so that they can compete. You know, there’s no way that they ULA would have considered buying engines from Blue Origin except for the pressure that SpaceX is putting on them. There’s no way that the French would have quickly abandoned the Ariane 5 and moved to the Ariane 6 design because— except for the pressure we’re putting on. So we’re really changing the world. The Russians are saying they’re coming up with a rocket that can beat SpaceX, which is entertaining, which is entertaining, because they’ve been working on their Angara rocket for 22 years, and launched it once. And suddenly they’re going to be coming up with a low-cost one.

Re: SpaceX Is Now One of the World’s Most Valuable Privately Held Companies

#35
post #18
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would be far more correct to say "Mr. Musk faces potential competition from another billionaire." Though ULA is buying engines from BO.

The BE-4 is an impressive engine [1], at 550,000 lbs of thrust it's about 1/3 of a Saturn F1[2], and it's stage combustion lox/methane. Blue Origin is building some impressive hardware. What's interesting to me is the dichotomy between Musk and Bezos vision for humanity in the Solar System. Musk is Mars focused almost exclusively. Bezos has talked about space habitats (O'neil cylinders for example [3]) as how he thin…

>> Bezos isn't playing, he's going all in, selling $1 billion of shares a year to fund Blue Origin [4]. One way to look at this situation is Musk and Bezos competing to be king of transportation infrastructure for the Solar System. High stakes indeed.

I used to wonder what could happen if the guys with billions decided to do something interesting with all their money. This is some of the most interesting stuff I've ever seen. Some guys buy sports teams, some buy hookers, some just fucking blow me away with their ambition.

Re: SpaceX Is Now One of the World’s Most Valuable Privately Held Companies

#36
post #4

> Mr. Musk faces competition from another billionaire. Blue Origin, a rocket company founded by Jeff Bezos, the chief executive of Amazon, aims to send tourists and supplies into space. Is that line even close to true? Last I heard Blue Origin was years away from revenue and far behind SpaceX in terms of capability and manufacturing.

Maybe not right now, but I wouldn't ever underestimate Bezos.

Musk and Bezos are both people I wouldn't bet against, but they're so drastically different in their styles. Musk is flashy, but gets shit done. Bezos knows how to get shit done quietly... and suddenly he's dominated and bought everything around you.

Re: SpaceX Is Now One of the World’s Most Valuable Privately Held Companies

#37
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a big fan of both companies, but having watched them grow I think the answer to whether or not it is true that Blue Origin is a competitor is, "No, yes, maybe?" If SpaceX can get Falcon Heavy to work then no, so much of the oxygen will be sucked out of the launch services market that Blue Origin will be hard pressed to compete. At that point. I see them much more likely as a ULA acquisition to insure engine suppl…

I believe I read about a month or so ago that Bezos plans on selling ~$1 billion worth of stock annually to fund BO, I could be misremembering the exact figures though. Even at that burn rate, assuming Amazon continues to do well, I don't think it will be too much of a drain on his wealth. Plus, he seems like a pretty long term thinker so I don't think he'll throw in the towel even in FH captures a big chunk of heavy…

This article provides the $1B/year figure, right after the part I quoted :-).

Re: SpaceX Is Now One of the World’s Most Valuable Privately Held Companies

#39
post #15
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes. That's the entire point of a corporation.

"The idea that all of the world should be measured in dollars to stockholders is actually a relatively new idea. It used to be that we thought that businesses had their purpose. Your purpose was to be making newspapers or fountain pens or whatever. And now we act as though the only purpose of a business was to enrich the people who trade it on Wall Street… Of course you’ve got to have profit, of course you’ve got to…

Sounds like a great quote, but when exactly were businesses just about "making stuff"? Look at the Hudson Bay company back in the 1600's. That was about profit, not making stuff.

And what is this "we act as though the only purpose of a business was to enrich the people who trade it on Wall Street"? No, the purpose is to make profit for shareholders, including the average everyday Joe with a 401k or pension.

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