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Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

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Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#321

Post by skybrian »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #210
ChuckMcM wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the secret to happiness as far as I am concerned; measure your days by how much you've learned not by how much you have earned. Interesting to know about the retirement 'vest' of 3 years. If he lives another 60 years that is a bit more than $1.25M.

That is the secret to happiness as far as I am concerned; measure your days by how much you've learned not by how much you have earned. Yet the vast majority of the time, this sentiment comes from people who are well-off, e.g. someone with an MIT PhD and an almost impossible-to-screw-up future. There are at least two possibilities. Either people who aren't well-off are just sour grapes, or they deal with a lot more t…

On the other hand, there are ways you can risk your health for money, where the reverse trade isn't possible for any amount of money. So, getting back to the article, retiring early seems like a good trade.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#322

Post by cvwright »

Retric wrote: post #96
ambulancechaser wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a study showing 99% of NFL players had chronic brain issues (Cte) Just to quibble but I understood that the study revealed that 99% of the group inspected had CTE. The group was not intended to be cross-section of the general population of NFL players. Not to trivialize the results but I think you extended them beyond what they said.

Another important consideration is NFL carriers are also much shorter now, the average is less than 3 years which should make a rather dramatic difference. Jackie Slater for comparison was a lineman for 20 seasons (1976-1995). And George Blanda had 26 seasons as a kicker and quarterback.

I assume you meant to say "NFL careers"?

For a second there, I thought you were talking about the average height of NFL running backs, and I was very confused...

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#323

Post by heygrady »

jpttsn wrote: post #272
heygrady wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prescribing someone to a "tribe" based on some kind of arbitrary test is divisive. Examples: - People with red hats on are my friends - People that like chocolate ice cream are idiots - People who let their children play football are Trump voters

Pretty sure we're talking past one another here. Thought experiment: if I describe a topic in the forest, and nobody is there to hear it, am I still being divisive?

One wonders why you would say divisive things aloud in an otherwise lonely forest. Saying something hurtful, offensive, divisive, unnecessary... is problematic regardless of the size of the audience. You can see that the original "divisive" comment [1] on this thread sparked a large response.

It's true that a HackerNews thread has a lower global-political impact than, say, a presidential tweet or a Supreme Court ruling. But that shouldn't prevent anyone from thinking through their HN comments. Words matter.

The comment we're both responding to [1] was unnecessarily divisive -- which partially obscured the commenter's otherwise good points (that team-thinking can obscure rational thinking). And that's particularly important on a website like HackerNews.

Original divisive comment: "[Has football joined the list of] values that separate members of the Red Tribe from the Blue Tribe? Football is a red-state pastime." [1]

The comment you responded to: "You're creating [divisive] discourse [by posing divisive questions]." [2]

I think your response, pointing out that a comment on HN usually won't "create" a nationally divisive discourse [3], is missing the point. If you look at the rest of the thread you can see that it created a divisive debate within HackerNews. I think the point you're missing is that divisive language creates divisions wherever it is used and it's worthwhile to point that out -- even if you think you're only talking to yourself.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14867048

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14867414

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14867450

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#324

Post by pnathan »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #212
pnathan wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard for me to say, as I live in Seattle, but American football love is definitely non-partisan here. But certain sports carry too high a risk for me to support my child getting into them before 16ish. They must have a glimmering of a perspective on what life means before choosing to engage in activities that are significantly likely to permanently damage themselves for life. Particularly for football , there are bra…

> skiing, running, or mountain biking, that is fine Perhaps it's not a red or blue split, but those sports you listed are definitely on one side of a major class divide. Basketball and football are moving towards the other. And while I understand that a competition between some farm hicks and big-city boys can bring two groups together, access to sports like skiing is fairly exclusive.

It's what came to mind as "sports that are likely to have injuries". Although I did plenty of skiing growing up a blue collar worker's kid. :-) I do hear you though, adult ski tickets are beaucoup bucks, it's why I don't do it anymore.

I wouldn't be bothered if my kid did baseball or cricket. Bored, perhaps, but not bothered.

Let's see, espn.com. Hockey can be super violent, but I'm probably ok with it, gotta check the numbers. Golf, boring, whatever. Fighting games - wrestling, MMA, etc, I'm probably ok with after a reasonable age. Certainly I would have no issues taking kiddo to Krava Maga.

(Personally I will go to Sounders (MLS) and Reign (NWSL) games, and I'm curious to see men's gymnastics at U of Washington this fall. It might be just a little Seattle)

e: The "red state" crew are, I think, more comfortable with idea of casual violence (and thus football). It's not as much of a Big Deal to them, often life is more rough and tumble IMO. I grew up in Idaho, so I do have some Life Experience in what I'm saying.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#325

Post by mgkimsal »

heygrady wrote: post #286
mgkimsal wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

using your head to hit the ball, and/or getting kicked in the head. ;) FWIW, though, I've not heard that point either.

The possibility of concussions is present in [nearly?] every sport. Typically, head injuries are not a core part of gameplay. In the case of soccer, there have been concerted efforts to remove "heading" from practice and from games. Football is being targeted because minor/severe concussions are commonplace and result from a core aspect of the game.

> The possibility of concussions is present in [nearly?] every sport

Tennis, golf, swimming, weightlifting, etc - probably have a pretty low incidence of concussion. Stuff with teams and fast movement are probably most suspect; hockey and football would intuitively seem like the worst offenders.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#326

Post by jotux »

camiller wrote: post #264
jotux wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Based on the national estimate, the majority of concussions resulted from participation in football (40.5%, n = 55 007), followed by girls' soccer (21.5%, n = 29 167), boys' soccer (15.4%, n = 20 929),..." >So 40.5% of concussions in football and 36.9% in combined boys/girls soccer. If 21.5% of girls (~6270) and 15.4% of boys (~3223) get concussions then 9493 (6270 + 3223) received concussions out of 50096 (20929 +…

Unfortunately n, in this paper, doesn't seem to mean sample size like you would expect in statistics. It is an extrapolated number of concussions nationwide based on a study of 100 high schools.

You are correct. That is such an odd way to represent data like this.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#327

Post by heygrady »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #133
jdelaney wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dr. McKee, the study's author, acknowledged that and addressed it: > But 110 positives remain significant scientific evidence of an N.F.L. player’s risk of developing C.T.E., which can be diagnosed only after death. About 1,300 former players have died since the B.U. group began examining brains. So even if every one of the other 1,200 players had tested negative — which even the heartiest skeptics would agree could…

But it should not be unexpected for the number to be higher. For years people who weigh hundreds of pounds are hitting each other repeatedly. And they are paid considerably well for it. Plus, we should compare this to other sports as well, as even most non-contact sports (soccer, basketball, even baseball) have collisions from time to time. Football should have a higher percentage than those, but without knowing the…

Early studies (2012) found that high school students had CTE [1]. When the issue broke nationally a few years ago, early indicators were that high school students were at higher risk than older athletes [2]. There have been some doctors that claim to be able to diagnose living people with CTE [3]. However, concussions are difficult to diagnose [4] and may go unreported. Sadly, one common side effect of concussions is suicidal thoughts [5]. Which is one of the main reasons people are asking if football is worth the risk [6].

[1] http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/schooled_in_sports/2012/12/lo...

[2] http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/high-school-footba...

[3] http://www.tsn.ca/a-possible-breakthrough-on-testing-cte-1.2...

[4] http://www.traumaticbraininjury.net/why-concussions-are-so-h...

[5] http://www.gq.com/story/the-concussion-diaries-high-school-f...

[6] https://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2017/07/26/is-footba...

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#329

Post by kol »

lucaspiller wrote: post #271
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the secret to happiness as far as I am concerned; measure your days by how much you've learned not by how much you have earned. Yet the vast majority of the time, this sentiment comes from people who are well-off, e.g. someone with an MIT PhD and an almost impossible-to-screw-up future. There are at least two possibilities. Either people who aren't well-off are just sour grapes, or they deal with a lot more t…

I live in a post-Soviet country - maybe one of the best in terms of GDP. Compared to the US it's basically the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of how much money you need to live - healthcare is free, you can rent an ok apartment on not much more than minimum wage, unemployment is below the EU average, transport is cheap (and public transport is good), food and entertainment isn't expensive. Yet people still lik…

Sounds like Hungary :)

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#330

Post by 13of40 »

majormajor wrote: post #313
13of40 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but imagine a stereotypical American family with three kids, two cars, maybe a dog, and both parents working professional jobs. I don't see how you could consider it abnormal for them to spend $2000 a month to rent a house in the suburbs. If you're talking "globally normal" that's one thing, but by that standard nearly everyone within a thousand miles of me is in abnormally large and expensive housing.

> Sure, but imagine a stereotypical American family with three kids, two cars, maybe a dog, and both parents working professional jobs. I don't see how you could consider it abnormal for them to spend $2000 a month to rent a house in the suburbs. That's a massively expensive and large house for the stereotypical American family in the majority of the country. (They're also not going to be paying 2K to rent a house in…

Let's suppose the median monthly rent in America was $1000. (It's actually $959 as of 2015, according to google.) Would you be shocked to find out someone was paying $500 a month? I mean, that's on the cheap side, but I wouldn't exactly call it weird, especially when they're probably living in rural Nebraska or something. Given that, why is it so shocking for someone to go the other direction, by the same factor?
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