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Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

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Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#161

Post by pishpash »

Azkar wrote: post #28

So what's the big picture here? We've suspected for years that football leads to brain trauma. Does that mean the NFL should shut down? Should they continue to operate as normal? There have been efforts recently to make the game safer for players, but the amount of concussions and injuries seen every season don't seem to be decreasing. Can you make the game "more safe" without drastically changing the game? Any game…

What's the big picture? In a few hundred years maybe this sport will look as unthinkable as gladiatorial games in Rome. That's certainly one possibility.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#162

Post by qq66 »

luckydata wrote: post #137
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I played football in up through High School, and I'd definitely say I would be a different person today if I hadn't gone through it. The camaraderie amongst the team is unique amongst every experience I've had since. Plus working through something so challenging definitely provides a great level of satisfaction. I like who I am today, even if I might have a higher risk for any symptoms, and I believe football played…

Don't you think any kind of challenge in a team setting would have provided the same growth without the side effect of possibly irreversible brain damage? I'm happy you like football, but I don't think you can say it forms character in a unique way, it's just a team sport and there's tons of team sport where hitting people with your head aren't the bread and butter of it. Try volleyball, if you have to fuck up someth…

There is a camaraderie born only of shared violence that seems to be expressed by football players, soldiers, mobsters, that might be hard to replicate in volleyball. I can't claim any firsthand knowledge of it however.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#163

Post by mikeash »

prostoalex wrote: post #127
mikeash wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study was definitely not a representative sample. On the other hand, if it turns out that the sample was as biased as possible, such that every single player with CTE was in the study, that would still put the incidence at 9%, which is crazy high.

> if it turns out that the sample was as biased as possible The researcher never claimed it was a sample that one would expect with a scientific study (e.g. control group, test group, variance by age, race, etc.) From the original NYT article: > The set of players posthumously tested by Dr. McKee is far from a random sample of N.F.L. retirees. “There’s a tremendous selection bias,” she has cautioned, noting that many…

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that bias would be unexpected. I just wanted to point out that even in the absolute worst case where the bias of this simple turns out to be as high as it possibly could be, the results are still crazy bad.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#164

Post by dsacco »

sjg007 wrote: post #142
meri_dian wrote: post #115

He clearly loves math so the CTE study may just have been the straw that broke the camel's back. He may have been yearning to fully devote himself to math for a while now. Regarding the broader debate that seems to be swirling along the lines of 'should we ban Football or not', I strongly believe we should not. If parents want to prevent their kids from playing football, great, that's their choice to make. But if the…

Dude. Multiple blows to the head causes CTE. And it starts as early as high school which is when tackle football starts. At this point it is immoral and unethical to have tackle football in schools.

> At this point it is immoral and unethical to have tackle football in schools.

That remains a normative claim, not a positive one. Some parents will be dissuaded from allowing their children to play football competitively, but you'll have great difficulty enforcing something like a ban.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#165

Post by pmiller2 »

QuotedForTruth wrote: post #123
paulddraper wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> after tax is 7 figures but still not a lot What exactly is "a lot of money" (and how much do you think MIT professors are paid)? I think point #6 is more relevant than point #5.

I think the point is he isn't "set for life" like some may expect NFL players to be.

Well, he may not have every option in the world (e.g. he can't simply move to San Francisco and hope to have a nice life without working), but he does effectively have his own personal basic income, and it's a significant amount. Right now, I couldn't imagine the additional freedom I'd have if I had ~$30-40k coming in every single year, regardless of what I did for work (if anything).

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#166

Post by qq66 »

yelnatz wrote: post #146
blang wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has also had some endorsement money with Bose.

Are those guaranteed? Do you lose endorsements when you quit playing?

Each contract is individual, but generally, endorsement contracts have a lot of termination clauses, so Bose could and will end the deal soon, unless Urschel's brand is so unique (MIT math PhD and NFL player? Nothing like it) that they decide to keep him on.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#167

Post by opportune »

School-Cotton wrote: post #148
opportune wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People generally don't retire to $25k/year, especially if they eventually get married and have children. The only way to really make something like that work is to move somewhere extremely inexpensive like SEA. That's unrealistic for most people. This is the one thing that has always struck me as odd abut the FIRE community. FIRE is a good goal but it's highly abnormal for people to retire early with these very low a…

Does SEA mean Seattle? My mind is blown that Seattle comes to your mind as the least expensive place in the US...

No, Southeast Asia. E.g. Indonesia or Thailand (just not Singapore)

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#168

Post by School-Cotton »

opportune wrote: post #167
School-Cotton wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does SEA mean Seattle? My mind is blown that Seattle comes to your mind as the least expensive place in the US...

No, Southeast Asia. E.g. Indonesia or Thailand (just not Singapore)

Ah, got it, thanks.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#169

Post by pishpash »

pmiller2 wrote: post #165
QuotedForTruth wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is he isn't "set for life" like some may expect NFL players to be.

Well, he may not have every option in the world (e.g. he can't simply move to San Francisco and hope to have a nice life without working), but he does effectively have his own personal basic income, and it's a significant amount. Right now, I couldn't imagine the additional freedom I'd have if I had ~$30-40k coming in every single year, regardless of what I did for work (if anything).

That's enough to live on and do those things you would do that only requires you. If you ever want to leverage something into a larger undertaking, that requires serious capital rather than a basic income.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#170

Post by sosborn »

sjg007 wrote: post #142
meri_dian wrote: post #115

He clearly loves math so the CTE study may just have been the straw that broke the camel's back. He may have been yearning to fully devote himself to math for a while now. Regarding the broader debate that seems to be swirling along the lines of 'should we ban Football or not', I strongly believe we should not. If parents want to prevent their kids from playing football, great, that's their choice to make. But if the…

Dude. Multiple blows to the head causes CTE. And it starts as early as high school which is when tackle football starts. At this point it is immoral and unethical to have tackle football in schools.

It isn't immoral or unethical to have sports where long-term injury can occur. Using that metric we would have to ban all sports. What is unethical is not educating the participants of the risks. We need to push for more studies and education, not bans.
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