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China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

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Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#51

Post by tomsthumb »

the8472 wrote: post #35
sametmax wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A dictatorship that wants to shut down criticism but raise IQ ? That seems like contradiction 101.

Is disobedience correlated with intelligence? Especially when the superiors are not less intelligent than the one who is receiving orders?

The "openness" trait from big five personality research (pretty legit) correlates with IQ. More open people are both more likely to question the status quo and are more likely to be more intelligent (in the strict sense of the word) than average. This suggests but doesn't necessarily mean that anything would come of it.

There's also the question of whether or not the genetic changes they attempt to make would increase intelligence independently of openness, which is likely possible, but that would require a deeper understanding and familiarity with the subject.

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#53

Post by jandrese »

HiroshiSan wrote: post #7
smaili wrote: post #4

Here's the primary piece: > At BGI Shenzhen, scientists have collected DNA samples from 2,000 of the world’s smartest people and are sequencing their entire genomes in an attempt to identify the alleles which determine human intelligence. Apparently they’re not far from finding them, and when they do, embryo screening will allow parents to pick their brightest zygote and potentially bump up every generation's intelli…

is a high IQ enough to determine 'success'?

It's not sufficient, but arguably necessary.

There are roughly three things that make you successful: 1. Being smart 2. Working hard 3. Opportunity

Everybody can do #2, but most won't. #1 is at least partially genetic. #3 is mostly luck, but is influenced by the other two. In fact all of the factors influence one another to a degree. Being born in an area with good schools and working hard can overcome somewhat deficient genetics for #1 for example. On the flipside, being born a genius in sub-Saharan Africa with no opportunities or even anything to work hard for makes success almost impossible.

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#54

Post by opportune »

pcnonpc wrote: post #42
le-mark wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you're really plugged into this. Is there really a contingent out there that thinks Gattaca[1] is a desirable outcome? Edit; citing the movie as a widely known example of a stratified society with both engineered and non engineered humans. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca

To flesh out a large range of implications will take at least an effort worthy of a PhD dissertation. With successful embryo selection, at least we can keep up with the increasingly higher minimum IQ needed to function well in advanced society and avoid a large underclass of unemployable people. Jordan Peterson - IQ and The Job Market https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjs2gPa5sD0

I find the underclass argument important and generally ignored. The whole drive for UBI is due in part to the fact that all but the most specialized human professions are being automated. Of course, specialization is not necessarily an indicator of intelligence, but I would guess that they are pretty correlated. Since intelligence is at least in part genetic (and the environmental portion seems to respond very poorly to poverty, which a UBI would likely put people in or close to), it is very likely that a society with UBI would have a very large generational underclass of those unable to sufficiently specialize enough for gainful employment.

If we can make more people capable of becoming specialized, everyone will benefit. Perhaps fields like medicine are limited in the number of people it would make sense to employ, but software engineering and scientific research pretty generally benefit the more people get involved (wrt software I am thinking more in terms of FOSS and startups, not huge teams for simple tasks). The barrier to participation in the future economy might end up essentially becoming IQ. It's important that we give people the tools to help their children be successful as the economy changes.

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#55

Post by le-mark »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #41
le-mark wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you're really plugged into this. Is there really a contingent out there that thinks Gattaca[1] is a desirable outcome? Edit; citing the movie as a widely known example of a stratified society with both engineered and non engineered humans. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca

Me. In general, the less intelligent people are, the less they contribute to society. I'd rather live in an engineered society with engineered people. The primary problem to solve is discrimination against non-engineered people. That problem was the only reason Gattaca was so dystopian. As long as there are controls in place that make it difficult, it should be possible to move forward with engineering humans in a pr…

The ladies who empty the trash here contribute more to society than I do. I just write throwaway apps for throwaway companies, they actually DO something.

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#56

Post by jandrese »

superlopuh wrote: post #28

I'm relatively sure the Soviets had a go and got nowhere. I'm hoping this attempt will go about as far.

Genetics has come a long way since the Soviet era. We are arguably at the cusp of a golden era of genetic engineering, assuming governments don't move quickly to ban the practice wholesale.

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#57

Post by balls187 »

smaili wrote: post #4

Here's the primary piece: > At BGI Shenzhen, scientists have collected DNA samples from 2,000 of the world’s smartest people and are sequencing their entire genomes in an attempt to identify the alleles which determine human intelligence. Apparently they’re not far from finding them, and when they do, embryo screening will allow parents to pick their brightest zygote and potentially bump up every generation's intelli…

> At BGI Shenzhen, scientists have collected DNA samples from 2,000 of the world’s smartest people and are sequencing their entire genomes in an attempt to identify the alleles which determine human intelligence.

That's essentially how Dr. Mindbender created Serpentor.

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#58

Post by nnfy »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #41
le-mark wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you're really plugged into this. Is there really a contingent out there that thinks Gattaca[1] is a desirable outcome? Edit; citing the movie as a widely known example of a stratified society with both engineered and non engineered humans. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca

Me. In general, the less intelligent people are, the less they contribute to society. I'd rather live in an engineered society with engineered people. The primary problem to solve is discrimination against non-engineered people. That problem was the only reason Gattaca was so dystopian. As long as there are controls in place that make it difficult, it should be possible to move forward with engineering humans in a pr…

>As long as there are controls in place that make it difficult

Keeping people from discrimination may be about as difficult as perfecting genetic engineering.

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#59

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #41
le-mark wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you're really plugged into this. Is there really a contingent out there that thinks Gattaca[1] is a desirable outcome? Edit; citing the movie as a widely known example of a stratified society with both engineered and non engineered humans. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca

Me. In general, the less intelligent people are, the less they contribute to society. I'd rather live in an engineered society with engineered people. The primary problem to solve is discrimination against non-engineered people. That problem was the only reason Gattaca was so dystopian. As long as there are controls in place that make it difficult, it should be possible to move forward with engineering humans in a pr…

> Me. In general, the less intelligent people are, the less they contribute to society. I'd rather live in an engineered society with engineered people.

If you are looking for bang for the buck in raising the average IQ across the whole population, then there are serious quick wins in eliminating things that drag it down. For instance, exposure to lead. And it's doable, hardly rocket science or genetic engineering.

If you're looking for a few very rich people to give their offspring another advantage over the rest, then genetic engineering becomes more pertinent.

Re: China Is Engineering Genius Babies (2013)

#60

Post by santoriv »

This article interviews Geoffrey Miller.

He wrote an article around the same time here: https://www.edge.org/responses/q2013

Here is a response to that article: https://eastasiastudent.net/china/edge-org-chinese-eugenics-...

TLDR; The view promoted by this article is probably only supported by a single person(Geoffrey Miller) and is highly speculative.

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