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Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

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Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#111

Post by cr0sh »

Azkar wrote: post #28

So what's the big picture here? We've suspected for years that football leads to brain trauma. Does that mean the NFL should shut down? Should they continue to operate as normal? There have been efforts recently to make the game safer for players, but the amount of concussions and injuries seen every season don't seem to be decreasing. Can you make the game "more safe" without drastically changing the game? Any game…

A couple or so year ago, Budweiser (or one of the other large beer companies) had a display at the grocery store I frequented depicting the concept of large anthropomorphic robots playing the game.

Imagine high-speed, large scale robo-soccer - for football.

I am not a sports fan in general, but I would watch the hell out of such a game if it could be created. Especially if everything was fully autonomous, and teams were made of machines created by smaller groups or individuals.

Basically, take today's "robot soccer" or "robot sumo" competitors, mix them up with the "robot combat" people, throw in a dash (a small dash) of SRL - and give them a way to organize and build the teams...

The robots wouldn't need to be anthropomorphic - specialized vehicle-style robots would work just as well. It'd have the spectacle of football wrapped up with robot combat and demolition derby. There'd likely be fire, explosions, smoke, massive noise - it could become an insane spectacle.

And - provided that the arena it is held in is constructed properly - no human injuries would occur.

Ultimately, easier said than done, and I am certain the first few games wouldn't be that much fun to watch until the building teams or whatnot got the hang of how to build such machines. But if that could be gotten past - it might be something grand to see.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#112

Post by jpttsn »

Stratoscope wrote: post #107
ineptech wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am deriding the sort of discourse that topics like this usually produce, not the people making the arguments. It's certainly possible that the public debate over kids' football will largely be apolitical and civil and productive, such things do happen, but I'm predicting that it won't be.

What you're actually doing is creating the kind of discourse you claim to be deriding.

How? Does nationwide political sentiment turn on HN comments?

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#113

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

ineptech wrote: post #34

Has "whether you let your kids play football" joined the long, long list of boolean values that separate members of the Red Tribe from the Blue Tribe? If not, I think it's inevitable that it will. Someone will try to get their school to close its football program, someone else will complain that the health dangers are exaggerated by the liberal media because football is a red-state passtime, and pretty soon it'll be…

I played football in up through High School, and I'd definitely say I would be a different person today if I hadn't gone through it. The camaraderie amongst the team is unique amongst every experience I've had since. Plus working through something so challenging definitely provides a great level of satisfaction.

I like who I am today, even if I might have a higher risk for any symptoms, and I believe football played a key part in my development.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#114

Post by sangnoir »

ineptech wrote: post #83
dv_dt wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that this comment is unnecessarily divisive and condescending. In general, I think people care about their kids, and will have different levels of risk sensitivity. http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/page/popwarner/pop-warn...

I am deriding the sort of discourse that topics like this usually produce, not the people making the arguments. It's certainly possible that the public debate over kids' football will largely be apolitical and civil and productive, such things do happen, but I'm predicting that it won't be.

> I am deriding the sort of discourse that topics like this usually produce

You have become what you hate - you are the one who introduced the subject. Its like "Has anyone compared $TOPIC to Nazis yet? This subject has a tendency to be Godwinned".

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#115

Post by meri_dian »

He clearly loves math so the CTE study may just have been the straw that broke the camel's back. He may have been yearning to fully devote himself to math for a while now.

Regarding the broader debate that seems to be swirling along the lines of 'should we ban Football or not', I strongly believe we should not.

If parents want to prevent their kids from playing football, great, that's their choice to make. But if they allow them to play, we have to keep in mind that only a very small percentage of players will continue on to play in college, and then only another fraction of those players will continue on to play in the NFL. I'm sure that people who play youth and high school football but stop playing after HS graduation have a much lower incidence rate of CTE than players who continue on to play at the collegiate and professional levels. So for the vast majority of football players CTE isn't much a risk.

Because those who do reach the highest levels of the sport make tremendous amounts of money, as long as they are aware of the risks, they should be able to make the decision for themselves.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#116

Post by cr0sh »

jackhack wrote: post #92
k3oni wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second this, american football derived from rugby. Look at how rugby players tackle with no helmets and no padding. It really looks like adding the protective gear doesn't help the players as much as they were thinking.

I've heard the same argument applied to automobiles. Would people drive more safely/carefully/considerately if a metal spike were attached to the steering wheel rather than an airbag? I can't pretend to know the answer, but it's interesting in that behaviors definitely change if there are costs associated with the actions.

I don't know about a metal spike, but automakers could cheaply implement something if they put a sticker on the airbag cover that said something like "SRS manufactured by Takata"...

/s

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#117

Post by paulddraper »

aresant wrote: post #65

A few colorful facts to the story here: 1) 3 years of service vests into NFL pension plan, he just hit qualification - value pegged at $21,360 a year for life (3) 2) He has not publicly commented on his retirement or reasons for it. 3) He has a hugely awesome secondary option - doctorate of math at MIT 4) He was at end of his rookie contract, next year would be the "in the money" year for him so he is clearly leaving…

> after tax is 7 figures but still not a lot

What exactly is "a lot of money" (and how much do you think MIT professors are paid)?

I think point #6 is more relevant than point #5.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#118

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

Azkar wrote: post #28

So what's the big picture here? We've suspected for years that football leads to brain trauma. Does that mean the NFL should shut down? Should they continue to operate as normal? There have been efforts recently to make the game safer for players, but the amount of concussions and injuries seen every season don't seem to be decreasing. Can you make the game "more safe" without drastically changing the game? Any game…

The thing with concussions is that it is definitely an injury football players used to simply play through, so any numbers on concussions that are more than >5 years old can't really be trusted.

They should definitely remove kick off completely, since they almost have already. Any run back is almost a guaranteed full speed head to head collision. At least with most plays the tackle is made from a considerable angle (for running backs there is rarely time for each player to approach full speed, or to come off unblocked).

Otherwise, I think it is what it is, just like people don't get up in arms about Boxing.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#119

Post by heygrady »

ineptech wrote: post #34

Has "whether you let your kids play football" joined the long, long list of boolean values that separate members of the Red Tribe from the Blue Tribe? If not, I think it's inevitable that it will. Someone will try to get their school to close its football program, someone else will complain that the health dangers are exaggerated by the liberal media because football is a red-state passtime, and pretty soon it'll be…

Maybe it's too far to prescribe "red v. blue" to this issue but it is indeed divisive. High school football has been controversial for many years because of safety concerns [1]. There is some anecdotal evidence that soccer is more popular in blue states [2]. For years, the NFL and its supporters claimed that concussion concerns were greatly overstated [3].

Also anecdotally, I had a Lyft driver who was also a high school football coach who was well versed in how many concussions occur in soccer. He wanted to tell me that football is as safe/dangerous as any other sport. That type of denialism--believing that mounting evidence can be safely ignored--is found in other "red" issues such as climate change, coal jobs, and Russia-gate.

[1] High schools are closing football programs. https://www.si.com/mmqb/2015/11/23/high-schools-dropping-and...

[2] Soccer is possibly a blue state thing. http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jul/10/...

[3] NFL doctors downplayed the dangers. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/18/nfl-doctor-s...

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#120

Post by freyir »

paulddraper wrote: post #117
aresant wrote: post #65

A few colorful facts to the story here: 1) 3 years of service vests into NFL pension plan, he just hit qualification - value pegged at $21,360 a year for life (3) 2) He has not publicly commented on his retirement or reasons for it. 3) He has a hugely awesome secondary option - doctorate of math at MIT 4) He was at end of his rookie contract, next year would be the "in the money" year for him so he is clearly leaving…

> after tax is 7 figures but still not a lot What exactly is "a lot of money" (and how much do you think MIT professors are paid)? I think point #6 is more relevant than point #5.

In the context, it's obvious he's talking about NFL players. Offensive line annual salaries:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/offensive-line/

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