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TSA will require separate screenings for electronics larger than a cell phone

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Re: TSA will require separate screenings for electronics larger than a cell phone

#51
post #15
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to mess with the agents. I'm surprised that he didn't get required to throw them out. (They contain liquid)

Not cool. The agents are just trying to do their jobs. The fact that the system is fubar is not their fault. On the other hand, people like you hold up the line for everyone.

> The agents are just trying to do their jobs. The fact that the system is fubar is not their fault.

At many airports, they're not trying very hard - every time I ask for an opt out, they roll their eyes and drag their feet getting me checked out. Sometimes they give me verbal shit for it - which is part of the fubar-ness of the system, and is exactly their fault.

Having said that, I just try to get through with a minimum of interaction.

Re: TSA will require separate screenings for electronics larger than a cell phone

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy in front of me had 4 cans of soda which he had to throw out. My sardines just had to be scanned for explosives or whatever the scanner thing is, but it seemed like they were fine to bring. At least they didn't see the supplement powder I packed in their own separate plastic baggies :)

Your supplement powder has different density than explosive, hence different color on their screens. They saw it for sure.

I wasn't worried about that, I was worried they would think it was drugs, since I had three snack bags full of white powder.

Re: TSA will require separate screenings for electronics larger than a cell phone

#53
post #37

I've never been to the US. I'd love to visit though, so many beautiful places to see! I had this idea to rent an RV on the west coast and spend a few months visiting bunch of places. But lately I've been deterred by all this TSA crap and the political 'developments'. I just no longer feel comfortable about traveling there. Don't get me wrong, my home country is far from peachy. But everything I read about US these da…

It really is not as big of a deal as everyone acts like it is. Take your stuff out, take off your shoes, and your belt. Walk through, get on your plane. Enjoy the US. This place is HUGE.

Get detained in a tiny cell at Houston airport for 12 hours with no explanation (happened to my father). Get your entry denied and have your vacation plans + all the money you spent on hotels/rentals/etc go to waste (happened to a friend of mine).

Speak to any foreigner that has had prolonged contact with US immigration/border agencies (particularly if they are from a poorer country - doubly so if it's a muslim country) and you will hear plenty of stories like that.

Re: TSA will require separate screenings for electronics larger than a cell phone

#54

Putting a device on its own tray means that an algorithm can apply heuristics to it to determine if it should receive a wipe test or additional human screening. By placing the items onto a tray, the orientation of the device is more likely to be consistent and not obscured by other objects in the line of sight of the scanner, making algorithmic object recognition easier when a 2D scanner is used or if the bag contain…

It's strange to me that we screen for weapons at all, other than explosives. The cabin is sealed. There is a marshal on the plane to limit gun/box-cutter level damage. At that point the plane itself is no more dangerous (actually considerably less dangerous) than an ordinary subway car.

With explosives, I've always thought an internal smuggle would work the best. I mean, you're going to suicide anyway, so why not stick C4 up your ass? Or if you're really serious, have some surgically installed into you.

One threat would be a small shaped charge to open the cabin, but that seems very unlikely. Last but not least, the WMD threat of biological weapon, 12 Monkeys style, which is a) not specific to planes and b) impossible to guard against, once the weapon is lost.

Re: TSA will require separate screenings for electronics larger than a cell phone

#55
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not cool. The agents are just trying to do their jobs. The fact that the system is fubar is not their fault. On the other hand, people like you hold up the line for everyone.

> The agents are just trying to do their jobs. The fact that the system is fubar is not their fault. At many airports, they're not trying very hard - every time I ask for an opt out, they roll their eyes and drag their feet getting me checked out. Sometimes they give me verbal shit for it - which is part of the fubar-ness of the system, and is exactly their fault. Having said that, I just try to get through with a mi…

> At many airports, they're not trying very hard - every time I ask for an opt out, they roll their eyes and drag their feet getting me checked out.

Yes, that's because they think -- perhaps wrongly, but not entirely without justification -- that you are opting out in order to make some political statement or because you're frustrated with the process and are trying to take it out on them.

I don't think you have a full appreciate for how mind-numbing and soul-crushing a job being a front-line TSA agent can be.

Re: TSA will require separate screenings for electronics larger than a cell phone

#56
post #32

>Of course, those enrolled in the TSA’s Precheck program will not have to remove their oversized electronics, due to their willingness to trade their fingerprints (and $85) for speedier screening. The TSA notes that Precheck is now available at 200 airports nationwide, up from 180 at the start of the year. Despite the snark, precheck is worth the money if you're a regular domestic traveler as are the trusted traveler…

To whom does the $85 for TSA pre-check go? Seems like a racket that, like most other things in this country, is aimed mainly at the poor. Pay more, get through. Can't pay? Fuck you.

I'm not sure I really agree - if you're poor, how many international flights are you making per year? This seems like a tax targeting those who can most afford it rather than least.

Re: TSA will require separate screenings for electronics larger than a cell phone

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian here with NEXUS (which bundles TSA PreCheck in); Absolutely worth it -- albeit both the US and Canadian governments basically now know every single detail of my life, including biometrics of fingerprints and rental scans. For someone that essentially travels by air every few months for work (and sometimes pleasure) the ability to spend 1 minute in security means I get to spend my time on things that matter.…

American with NEXUS including Global Entry and PreCheck; It's a real treat to bypass 2 hour line-ups at the road border crossings on holiday weekends. In six years I've never had an unpleasant time at the border going in either direction, even though I usually cross at entry points that don't have dedicated NEXUS lanes.

Indeed I just wish it worked both ways. Entering the country is a breeze; going out of the country has (so far) found me parked in a long line with everyone else. On the other hand it's a small price to pay to travel and see the world. I'm not going to complain.

Re: TSA will require separate screenings for electronics larger than a cell phone

#58

Putting a device on its own tray means that an algorithm can apply heuristics to it to determine if it should receive a wipe test or additional human screening. By placing the items onto a tray, the orientation of the device is more likely to be consistent and not obscured by other objects in the line of sight of the scanner, making algorithmic object recognition easier when a 2D scanner is used or if the bag contain…

It's strange to me that we screen for weapons at all, other than explosives. The cabin is sealed. There is a marshal on the plane to limit gun/box-cutter level damage. At that point the plane itself is no more dangerous (actually considerably less dangerous) than an ordinary subway car. With explosives, I've always thought an internal smuggle would work the best. I mean, you're going to suicide anyway, so why not sti…

I agree. I think that the threat posed by weapons was already fully mitigated on the day of 9/11 when the passengers on the last aircraft tackled the hijackers in spite of the box cutters. All this with no marshal, no sealed cabin door, etc.

The airport screening stuff has been a fiasco that is far more political and psychological than based on actual risk reduction, and the additional cost and time it takes to go through security has cost the economy billions in lost productivity.

I think that the big target at present is actually explosives. I think that C4 resembles the contents of a typical LiIon cell when viewed on a scanner, or could be made to appear quite similar if prepared by someone moderately skilled who had access to (or knowledge of) the scanner and the physics behind it.

Your point about a subway is interesting because we've seen no attacks on subways in the US since 9/11 and even a failed, low-budget attack would result in massive subway line closures and military presence in the subway for months, making it an effective fear-creation attack that would cost a city hundreds of millions of dollars, and potentially much more in lost productivity and mental anguish.

I think the reason we haven't seen those attacks is because so few people would actually want to do them. A can of gas brought into a subway car in a backpack and ignited while the door was closed, combined with an armed shooter using a handgun would cost But on a plane, even a small explosive charge can take the aircraft out of the sky, so I think there is still motive for attackers to try this vector, but if the goal is to make airplanes crash it would be far more effective to use a high powered rifle near an airport and actually shoot at the aircraft. Some airports offer geographical features where this attack would be particularly effective.

That we haven't seen anyone do this also suggests strongly that there is virtually nobody who wants to harm American citizens living in the US, or perhaps that all those who do have extremely grandiose ideas for attacks that are very unlikely to succeed.

The 9/11 attacks were a brilliant way to weaponize aircraft, but after that was used once it becomes a lot harder to use it again. My guess is that if there ever is another large attack it will be something completely different. The first WTC bombing failed, but (similar to 9/11) relied on a very open loophole (fertilizer + van + parking garage under skyscraper). So I think authorities should be focusing on identifying the attack vectors that we are still vulnerable to that haven't been tried.

Re: TSA will require separate screenings for electronics larger than a cell phone

#59
post #32

>Of course, those enrolled in the TSA’s Precheck program will not have to remove their oversized electronics, due to their willingness to trade their fingerprints (and $85) for speedier screening. The TSA notes that Precheck is now available at 200 airports nationwide, up from 180 at the start of the year. Despite the snark, precheck is worth the money if you're a regular domestic traveler as are the trusted traveler…

To whom does the $85 for TSA pre-check go? Seems like a racket that, like most other things in this country, is aimed mainly at the poor. Pay more, get through. Can't pay? Fuck you.

Well, pre-check does actually require a human being to do something with your application and work to happen on the part of the government. I'd rather the folks requesting the service pay for that than the taxpayers as a whole. Don't ascribe to classist malice what is simply a fee for service.

Re: TSA will require separate screenings for electronics larger than a cell phone

#60
post #8

Their own separate bin? I'm interpreting this to mean, electronics in their own bin, together, is fine. One bin for each laptop, tablet, phone, etc would be madness. However, I don't think a laptop and an iPad will fit into one bin without overlapping each other. So now we are at probably four bins per person including their carry-on bag as a "bin." This is really ridiculous and will lead to even longer, more chaotic…

> One bin for each laptop, tablet, phone, etc would be madness. The current case, in every airport I've traversed, was each laptop in a separate bin. I believe I stumbled through an airport "piloting" this program (BOS) as we had to remove tablets, too. We were not told "everything larger than a phone", we were told "laptops and tablets" — all in separate bins. It took five bins to get through. "Piloting" new securit…

Do you think it would be any faster if you had to "check" your carry on at check-in, they were all scanned asynchronously from you actually going through security, and you pick up the bag on the other side in a mini baggage claim scenario? I know baggage claim proper is generally a madhouse, but if it's just literally going through a wall to allow the actual security screening to happen faster, I think it could be faster overall.

Would definitely need some infrastructure changes in the airports themselves, which is probably a pretty big negative.

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