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Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

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Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#51

Post by Splines »

Azkar wrote: post #28

So what's the big picture here? We've suspected for years that football leads to brain trauma. Does that mean the NFL should shut down? Should they continue to operate as normal? There have been efforts recently to make the game safer for players, but the amount of concussions and injuries seen every season don't seem to be decreasing. Can you make the game "more safe" without drastically changing the game? Any game…

> Can you make the game "more safe" without drastically changing the game? Any game played at this high of a speed, with this strong of players is going to have some inherent danger to it.

I'm only a casual watcher of football, but I think it would be possible to change the game. My non-expert impression is that the game has evolved over the years (and I could certainly be wrong) and incentivizing players to avoid causing head trauma by penalties seems like the way forward (above and beyond current helmet-helmet collision rules). Maybe adding shock sensors to the helmets to objectively measure impacts is another thing they can do.

It would be interesting to learn what they already do today wrt measuring the forces on the head's of players.

Personally I wouldn't mind at all if the game changes. I would be satisfied watching them play the equivalent of flag football - high level strategy and athletic clutch plays can still occur with a safer game.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#52

Post by dragontamer »

Football may get a lot of study recently, because its one of the most popular sports.

But Basketball injuries can ruin you for life as well. I have a cousin who has severe amnesia after getting knocked out during a Basketball match. Its like years of his life were wiped away after his concussion. He was a straight-A student too, these sorts of things are severely damaging to your student career.

Brain injuries exist in a lot of sports. Football is particularly dangerous but the dangers in other sports (Boxing, MMA, Basketball, Soccer) are severe as well.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#53

Post by grogenaut »

mikeash wrote: post #43
ambulancechaser wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a study showing 99% of NFL players had chronic brain issues (Cte) Just to quibble but I understood that the study revealed that 99% of the group inspected had CTE. The group was not intended to be cross-section of the general population of NFL players. Not to trivialize the results but I think you extended them beyond what they said.

The study was definitely not a representative sample. On the other hand, if it turns out that the sample was as biased as possible, such that every single player with CTE was in the study, that would still put the incidence at 9%, which is crazy high.

Having played football through college then aussie rules football for another 9 years I'd definitely like to see some numbers on things like that, recreational hockey, rugby, etc. Not sure how hard it would be to be checked myself.

That said, according to my mom I was a complete ahole until I started playing football in 8th grade when I completely mellowed out and started focusing on somthing. Most other sports didn't click with me; I think I needed organized competitive team based wall punching to take out random teenage anger. It's just that maybe I would have taken up golf earlier :)

So if the contact or a certain form of contact is the issue, lets either change football to not really have these risks or invent another sport. I mean they're all invented anyway.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#54

Post by schnable »

ineptech wrote: post #34

Has "whether you let your kids play football" joined the long, long list of boolean values that separate members of the Red Tribe from the Blue Tribe? If not, I think it's inevitable that it will. Someone will try to get their school to close its football program, someone else will complain that the health dangers are exaggerated by the liberal media because football is a red-state passtime, and pretty soon it'll be…

Football is hardly part of the culture wars.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#55

Post by Dirlewanger »

Funnily enough, this story also isn't prominently displayed on their homepage aside from the sidebar in tiny font. Apparently within hours of the NYT study being released, ESPN's reblogging of it disappeared to several page refreshes down their homepage. I can't wait for them to be significantly downsized if not dissolved completely.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#56

Post by macintux »

CurtMonash wrote: post #39

I abruptly stopped being a football fan last November. The immediate reason was Bill Belichick staking his own reputation on Donald Trump's assaults on the media, in a close state in a close election. But CTE was making it hard to remain a football fan anyway.

Yeah, I stopped watching/following the game years back when I thought Austin Collie was never going to get up after yet another collision.

I don't want to see someone die on the field, and I certainly don't want to contribute to it happening.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#57

Post by magic_beans »

HiroshiSan wrote: post #30
simlevesque wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone who's getting their PhD is a genius No but anyone with a PhD has a brain worth preserving.

Everyone has a brain worth preserving...my point was when you google "John Urschel", most of what the news has to say about him is that he is a Math Genius, because he is doing his PhD at MIT, which I don't believe is the case.

I'm pretty damn impressed at ANYONE in the NFL with a secondary degree, but a Math PhD at MIT? That's incredible. This guy is clearly athletically and intellectually elite.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#58

Post by shas3 »

Azkar wrote: post #28

So what's the big picture here? We've suspected for years that football leads to brain trauma. Does that mean the NFL should shut down? Should they continue to operate as normal? There have been efforts recently to make the game safer for players, but the amount of concussions and injuries seen every season don't seem to be decreasing. Can you make the game "more safe" without drastically changing the game? Any game…

The evolution of boxing presents a template of how football will go. Boxing today is a rather fringe sport in school. Few parents put their kids in boxing enthusiastically. Similarly, boxing matches, although viewed by millions, are rather fringe in being grand and occasional pay-per-views. Football will go the same way, but perhaps much more slowly, given the cultural inertia. I firmly believe that these things evolve, rather than abruptly change. Whether it evolves into a safer form of the game or to become marginalized is hard to say. Already many parents are hesitant in putting their kids in football in school.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#59

Post by fasteddie »

grasshopperpurp wrote: post #16
grogenaut wrote: post #10

Summary: a national football league player, and PhD in math from mit, John Urschel, abruptly retired 2 days after a study showing 99% of retired NFL players from a study group had chronic brain issues (Cte). This is right before training starts for the season. Edit: updates. Will point out that any summary is going to miss some facts as it's a summary. But I think people might be more likely to read the article if th…

. . . a study showing 99% of NFL players had chronic brain issues (Cte)" This is not exactly true. The study required volunteers, and from what I understand, the families who volunteered already suspected brain damage, so it's not really a representative study. It's still very alarming, though.

Totally agree. On the NYT article about the study:

"But 110 positives remain significant scientific evidence of an N.F.L. player’s risk of developing C.T.E., which can be diagnosed only after death. About 1,300 former players have died since the B.U. group began examining brains. So even if every one of the other 1,200 players had tested negative — which even the heartiest skeptics would agree could not possibly be the case — the minimum C.T.E. prevalence would be close to 9 percent, vastly higher than in the general population."

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/25/sports/footba...

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#60

Post by josephjrobison »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #55

Funnily enough, this story also isn't prominently displayed on their homepage aside from the sidebar in tiny font. Apparently within hours of the NYT study being released, ESPN's reblogging of it disappeared to several page refreshes down their homepage. I can't wait for them to be significantly downsized if not dissolved completely.

I do feel like the commentators had a pretty supportive opinion of his decision, even saying he has plans to be more than just a football player.
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