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Did Americans in 1776 have British accents?

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Re: Did Americans in 1776 have British accents?

#91

Post by bbgm »

intellectronica wrote: post #28
thinker wrote: post #25

I'd agree with the analysis that English is closer to how its spoken in the US today accent-wise. If you look at how people speak English in British colonies, the pronunciation isn't heavily accented to how its spoken in the UK today. For example, South Asia (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh).

I don't think this is relevant, since speakers in Asia rarely speak English as their mother tongue. Whatever accent they have is due to the sources they've been exposed to. Well educated speakers in India and Pakistan, for example, usually speak with an accent that is quite closed to RP. Other speakers often learn their pronunciation from American movies.

Agreed. Many of us who do speak English as a first language ( or are very fluent in it) are definitely closer to RP but for those who pick it up TV etc have a huge influence and that is getting more American

Re: Did Americans in 1776 have British accents?

#92

Post by mahmud »

detst wrote: post #64
mahmud wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is exactly what I meant by "piss-taking"; your comment was such a delightful jab, I was pleased to play along :-) I stopped short of scratching others as well, my gut response was to say "Did you divorce a German and take half her humor in settlement." That would have gotten an ovation from the English crowd, but could have confused you and other festive yanks in this victorious of all occasions! Happy 4th o…

I can't speak for him but as someone that had the exact same thought, here's the problem: it's not a "delightful jab" at all. You misinterpreted it and then went on to say things in a way that could be easily taken as being a dick or an internet troll. I have a sense of humor and will laugh at just about anything but the written word does a poor job at conveying subtleties. If you want to be interpreted as "piss-taki…

It might come off wrong in writing, but it's worse in person when you're on the receiving end of banter like that, coming from an Aussie or Irishman or a Geordie with a very straight face.

I too was offended the first time it happened to me, but I dropped all pretense and self-righteousness; learn to give it back, cold, and you might earn yourself that highest label of endearment: the C-word :-) Then you shout the first round and move on.

In my original diatribe I was paying out the poms, as Aussies would say.

Re: Did Americans in 1776 have British accents?

#93

Post by keefe »

ghostwunder wrote: post #37
astine wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't describe the American South as having had few upheavals. It's actually had more than most places in the United States. Though, I would agree that it's had fewer lninguistic influences than other regions of the country.

show me the fuckin receipts. fewer linguistic influences? between the french, dutch, spanish, portuguese, central african, west african, native americans, and british there are very few places in the world that have such of an unique stew of languages. safire died but the knowledge of american language did not die with him. upheavels? thats another post. but lets refrain from throwing around ignorant barbs and passin…

angry poster is angry...

immigration into the south is much less than the east/west coast, populations are still lower, less immigration, less languages, less influence?

Re: Did Americans in 1776 have British accents?

#94

Post by [deleted] »

nandemo wrote: post #86
Rod wrote: post #7

Interestingly, it's also hypothesized that Brazilian Portuguese is closer to Portuguese proper 500 years ago than Portuguese proper today. The fact that the Portuguese spoken in former Portuguese colonies in Africa sounds more Brazilian Portuguese than Portuguese proper suggests the hypothesis is right. Moreover, Portuguese poetry of the Renaissance period only makes sense phonetically if spoken with a Brazilian acce…

For what is worth, African Portuguese sounds more like European Portuguese to us Brazilians. Portuguese poetry of the Renaissance period only makes sense phonetically if spoken with a Brazilian accent In this case I wonder which Brazilian accent? I guess it would be Rio accent or some Northeastern accent. In case anyone is curious the hear the differences, this page contains recordings of a Portuguese sentence spoken…

[deleted]

Re: Did Americans in 1776 have British accents?

#95

Post by [deleted] »

philwelch wrote: post #43

From the article: Americans in 1776 did have British accents in that American accents and British accents hadn’t yet diverged. That’s not too surprising. Really? Because that surprises the hell out of me. Americans were an ocean away from Britain for maybe a century before 1776, and the accents still hadn't diverged?

[deleted]

Re: Did Americans in 1776 have British accents?

#96

Post by euccastro »

Rod wrote: post #7

Interestingly, it's also hypothesized that Brazilian Portuguese is closer to Portuguese proper 500 years ago than Portuguese proper today. The fact that the Portuguese spoken in former Portuguese colonies in Africa sounds more Brazilian Portuguese than Portuguese proper suggests the hypothesis is right. Moreover, Portuguese poetry of the Renaissance period only makes sense phonetically if spoken with a Brazilian acce…

In support of that hypothesis, migration to Brazil came mainly from the north of Portugal, where the language was born. Also, Brazil was spared the strong French influence in the XIX century.

Nowadays, the pronunciation of Lisbon (center-south) actually loses information (deemphasizing and even omitting some vowels and losing other distinctions like -om/-am into ão) wrt others, so it's hard to imagine evolution to have happened the other way.

Re: Did Americans in 1776 have British accents?

#97

Post by stoney »

philwelch wrote: post #43

From the article: Americans in 1776 did have British accents in that American accents and British accents hadn’t yet diverged. That’s not too surprising. Really? Because that surprises the hell out of me. Americans were an ocean away from Britain for maybe a century before 1776, and the accents still hadn't diverged?

I've always assumed that American (and Australian) accents were some kind of "average accent" that emerged from the mix of British accents that migrated to those particular colonies. (With a bit of natural evolution added in from people emulating influential figures, that kind of thing).

So yeah, I'd have thought that a distinct American accent would have emerged after no more than a generation.

Re: Did Americans in 1776 have British accents?

#98

Post by stoney »

sprout wrote: post #66
philwelch wrote: post #43

From the article: Americans in 1776 did have British accents in that American accents and British accents hadn’t yet diverged. That’s not too surprising. Really? Because that surprises the hell out of me. Americans were an ocean away from Britain for maybe a century before 1776, and the accents still hadn't diverged?

Most of the population growth was fed by immigration, and most Americans traded regularly with British merchants even after 1776.

But as mentioned elsewhere, there was (and is) no one "British" accent - so the immigrants would have had quite a mix of accents.

Re: Did Americans in 1776 have British accents?

#99

Post by euccastro »

nandemo wrote: post #86
Rod wrote: post #7

Interestingly, it's also hypothesized that Brazilian Portuguese is closer to Portuguese proper 500 years ago than Portuguese proper today. The fact that the Portuguese spoken in former Portuguese colonies in Africa sounds more Brazilian Portuguese than Portuguese proper suggests the hypothesis is right. Moreover, Portuguese poetry of the Renaissance period only makes sense phonetically if spoken with a Brazilian acce…

For what is worth, African Portuguese sounds more like European Portuguese to us Brazilians. Portuguese poetry of the Renaissance period only makes sense phonetically if spoken with a Brazilian accent In this case I wonder which Brazilian accent? I guess it would be Rio accent or some Northeastern accent. In case anyone is curious the hear the differences, this page contains recordings of a Portuguese sentence spoken…

For Galician (see [1] for the reason why this is relevant) speakers, Brazilian and African accents are easier to parse than "official" (not northern) Portuguese. Whatever the history there, it seems very clear to me that it's the central/southern Portuguese version that diverged the most from whatever was the original language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician_language

Re: Did Americans in 1776 have British accents?

#100

Post by detst »

mahmud wrote: post #92
detst wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for him but as someone that had the exact same thought, here's the problem: it's not a "delightful jab" at all. You misinterpreted it and then went on to say things in a way that could be easily taken as being a dick or an internet troll. I have a sense of humor and will laugh at just about anything but the written word does a poor job at conveying subtleties. If you want to be interpreted as "piss-taki…

It might come off wrong in writing, but it's worse in person when you're on the receiving end of banter like that, coming from an Aussie or Irishman or a Geordie with a very straight face. I too was offended the first time it happened to me, but I dropped all pretense and self-righteousness; learn to give it back, cold, and you might earn yourself that highest label of endearment: the C-word :-) Then you shout the fi…

Oh, I get it. I'm usually the one that initiates the banter. It's not worse in person because a misinterpretation is easier to avoid and doesn't devolve into a troll-fest (maybe a fight, but if someone lets it go that far, it's not playful banter, it's being an asshole.)

> Oh, a funny American. Did you get that humor in a legal settlement?

Sure, this comment might just be banter considering the way you misinterpreted the original comment but when you take it the way it was meant, it just looks like petty trolling. That's all I am saying.

And I'm done here. I've made my point and people are down-voting.

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