Wow, I read a lot of hate for PWAs, I had no idea. I use them and enjoy a lot of them (mobile.twitter.com). It really depends on the app, some benefit from being PWA others would need to be native. But the idea that we shouldn't add a feature that Chrome and other browsers have just because you personally don't like push notifications, seems silly.
Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web
221–230 of 451 posts
Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
> loading screens, push notifications You seem to be laser-focused on this one tiny part of PWAs. There's way more too it than that, like offline support, background sync, etc. Imagine if you could press a button on the page to save that article you're reading for later, and have it available offline next time you need it. Or what if you could write a comment while offline, and have it be automatically posted next ti…
> Imagine if you could press a button on the page to save that article you're reading for later, and have it available offline next time you need it. This is available on Safari, the same browser the author is bashing and comparing to IE. And it's synced across macOS and iOS. It's called "reading list". It works with airplane mode and everything.
Yeah, that sounds like a great feature. The thing is though, that feature isn't going to go away just because PWAs are a thing. The only difference with PWAs would be that sites would _also_ have the option of building offline support into the application itself rather than having to rely on one specific browser to handle that feature for them.
Not to mention PWAs would allow for more complex offline features Safari doesn't support, like syncing the front page of a news site and all associated articles, or automatically downloading new articles as soon as they're posted.
Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web
#223I think a lot of commenters here are missing the point and getting distracted by push notifications (who wants a website spamming them with notifications?) and loading screens (hardly a feature). Apple supporting PWA (Progressive Web Apps) is hugely important because it enables a future where web apps can natively support browser, Mac/Windows/Linux desktop, and mobile iPhone/Android/Windows native mobile with a singl…
Apple supporting PWA (Progressive Web Apps) is hugely important because it enables a future where web apps can natively support browser, Mac/Windows/Linux desktop, and mobile iPhone/Android/Windows native mobile with a single codebase of open technologies. Why after over 30 years of experiencing cross platform "write once run anywhere* technologies do developers still think that's the best user experience? Yes it mak…
I think this is the crux of the matter. Apple supporting PWA means lower quality apps for its users, and Apple has the market share to demand apps be native code.
Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web
#224I hate using web apps. On desktop, mobile, wherever. The author's list of things they want supported by Mobile Safari is just aggravating: > Here are a list of things you still can’t do with mobile safari due to Apple’s refusal to support them: > > Create an app loading screen > Use push notifications > Add offline support > Create an initial app UI to load instantly > Prompt installation to the home screen through b…
The answer is, you don't want those things. 95% of web applications shouldn't use push notifications, add to home screen dialogs or app loading screens. They're annoying.
Now imagine a world where PWA is substantially implemented across all major browsers. Given this scenario, let's pretend Mark Zuckerberg invented Facebook in that environment. There's the case for PWA - some apps are more engaging (for better or worse) with push notifications, home screen access, offline functionality, and optimistic UI updates.
Do I care if my favorite blogs have push notifications? No. Do I care if my favorite social networks and messaging apps have push notifications? Yes.
Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web
#225I hate using web apps. On desktop, mobile, wherever. The author's list of things they want supported by Mobile Safari is just aggravating: > Here are a list of things you still can’t do with mobile safari due to Apple’s refusal to support them: > > Create an app loading screen > Use push notifications > Add offline support > Create an initial app UI to load instantly > Prompt installation to the home screen through b…
Sometimes I, too, pine for the days of "hyperlinks, text and images"-only web. So I turn off Javascript. You can too, if that's how you want to consume the web. That's the beauty of it - it allows for that by design. What I don't like is the position you are taking that "because I only want to consume the web that way, the Web itself should be hamstrung to my limited view of how it should work." There is no good reas…
That's true. I have started getting a militant attitude towards web apps and I really shouldn't think like that.
I use web apps every day (JIRA, CircleCI, Slack, Google Docs). And reflecting on it, Google Docs has always been pretty damn good.
But I get irked every single time I try to do something like paste an image, or drag-and-drop, or lookup in the system dictionary and it just fails or works weirdly. I let those annoyances blind me to the value that these web apps provide.
I want the web to continue as a modern and relevant platform. But I don't see the point of trying to "escape" the browser chrome, or trying to copy the look and feel of native apps. If web apps are going to be cross-platform then they should embrace not being truly integrated with any native platform.
The article we are commenting on feels focused on making web apps "more like" native apps. I do not like that direction at all. I don't need, or want, to pretend my web apps are just like native apps. Because they never will be, and putting them side-by-side on my home screen with launch images will just increase my expectations of them to behave natively, and my annoyance with them when they fail to do so.
Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web
#226I think a lot of commenters here are missing the point and getting distracted by push notifications (who wants a website spamming them with notifications?) and loading screens (hardly a feature). Apple supporting PWA (Progressive Web Apps) is hugely important because it enables a future where web apps can natively support browser, Mac/Windows/Linux desktop, and mobile iPhone/Android/Windows native mobile with a singl…
But as an iOS user I expect you to use the technology stack provided by my preferred operating system. I don't want to use your app if you're targeting a lowest-common-denominator feature set. When I change my preferred text size through accessibility settings, good native apps respond correctly. If I need voice over support, the operating system knows how to read the view hierarchy to me in a logical way. When drag-…
> When I change my preferred text size through accessibility settings, good native apps respond correctly. If I need voice over support, the operating system knows how to read the view hierarchy to me in a logical way.
> When drag-and-drop becomes a thing in iOS 11, native apps will implement that feature well. I think it will take some time for web apps to implement it as nicely (if ever).
All these things the browser should be able to do well, if they wanted.
Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But there still is no web app on macOS or iOS that feels good, consistent and integrated in the same way that a good native app feels. Part of that though is because they _don't_ allow PWAs. Contrast that with Android, where it's now entirely possible to make a PWA so deeply integrated into the OS that the average user can't even tell it's not a native app: https://blog.chromium.org/2017/02/integrating-progressive-…
> Contrast that with Android, where it's now entirely possible to make a PWA so deeply integrated into the OS that the average user can't even tell it's not a native app Oh, but quite many will be able to tell after 5 seconds of using it. The rest will realize the moment the Internet connection drops temporarily.
> The rest will realize the moment the Internet connection drops temporarily.
Nope. A properly-written PWA will continue working just fine when the user goes offline, just like a native app would.
Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web
#228I'm not naive and understand the sentiment that part of Apple's motivation behind not supporting these API's on mobile Safari is to protect its App Store ecosystem.
BUT I also believe that Apple cares deeply about quality and its MAIN reason to refuse support is to protect the quality of user experiences on its iOS platform and steer developers to use its native API's which produce vastly superior apps.
It would take Apple years of wasted effort to guarantee similar experiences in the browser.
Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
But as an iOS user I expect you to use the technology stack provided by my preferred operating system. I don't want to use your app if you're targeting a lowest-common-denominator feature set. When I change my preferred text size through accessibility settings, good native apps respond correctly. If I need voice over support, the operating system knows how to read the view hierarchy to me in a logical way. When drag-…
> When I change my preferred text size through accessibility settings, good native apps respond correctly. If I need voice over support, the operating system knows how to read the view hierarchy to me in a logical way. > When drag-and-drop becomes a thing in iOS 11, native apps will implement that feature well. I think it will take some time for web apps to implement it as nicely (if ever). All these things the brows…
Given that web apps still fail to do drag-and-drop (and copy and paste) as nicely as native apps — and these things have been a staple of Mac interaction since forever — I do not hold out much hope.
Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web
#230I think a lot of commenters here are missing the point and getting distracted by push notifications (who wants a website spamming them with notifications?) and loading screens (hardly a feature). Apple supporting PWA (Progressive Web Apps) is hugely important because it enables a future where web apps can natively support browser, Mac/Windows/Linux desktop, and mobile iPhone/Android/Windows native mobile with a singl…
Apple supporting PWA (Progressive Web Apps) is hugely important because it enables a future where web apps can natively support browser, Mac/Windows/Linux desktop, and mobile iPhone/Android/Windows native mobile with a single codebase of open technologies. Why after over 30 years of experiencing cross platform "write once run anywhere* technologies do developers still think that's the best user experience? Yes it mak…
GMail was (and maybe keeps being) a much better user experience than native email clients for desktop PCs.