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Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

medium.com

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Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#81

Post by SquareWheel »

rsynnott wrote: post #15

As an iOS user, I'm actually quite glad that websites can't send me push notifications on it. And app loading screens are a feature? If people _insist_ on making phone apps as websites, there's Cordova and all that. Such apps are never very good, of course. I still haven't seen a website-based desktop/phone app that wasn't a clunky non-native-looking resource-hogging mess.

That exact argument can be applied to native apps. Should native apps have push notifications removed?

Why not? Because they can actually be extremely useful. Such as for receiving emails, Facebook messages, Slack pings, or news updates you've subscribed to. Maybe somebody tweeted you. Any of these apps could work as progressive webapps.

Regardless if the platform is native or web-based, the feature remains opt-in. If you don't want them, then don't subscribe to them.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#82

Post by cjCamel »

This is a frustrating article - the issue really is that Safari doesn't support Service Workers and Web App Manifests, which are the canonical way of making PWAs.

Safari should support Service Workers[1], because they allow you to safely intercept and modify navigation and resource requests, and cache resources in a very granular fashion, securely and on a different thread to your app JS. This is great for performance and offline/spotty reception.

The Web App Manifest[2] is the file that allows developers to "appify" the site, by prompting the user to add to their home screen (only once they hit a certain usage rate), show a splash screen etc. But that's a nice to have compared to Service Workers.

[1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Web/API/Service_Worker...

[2]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Manifest

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#83

Post by NoGravitas »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #38
FussyZeus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never met a single end user who wants desktop notifications for web "apps," including myself. In fact I wish I could turn it off globally and more easily. I'm sure there are a number of legitimate uses but as of now, every craptastic "news" website I visit now wants to pester the hell out of me with notifications when they post new clickbait.

Im comfortable with the current system where websites request permission for notifications, but they are as useful as phone notifications. Message in a webchat, new email, new private notification on Twitter, &c. It should always be opt in, but it is a useful thing for many use cases.

Can't reply to FussyZeus, but in Firefox, you can permanently disable notifications for all websites (though it is not exposed in the UI).

Go to about:config, search for dom.webnotifications.enabled, set it to false.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#84

Post by SirHound »

jaffathecake wrote: post #30

Safari engineers have attended all service worker working group meetings, and they do contribute. However, I do share the frustrations over transparency. It's tough to get developers to care about things like offline-first, because it's tough for them to convince managers to allow them to spend time on a feature that won't work on iOS (since it won't work in Safari, and Apple has banned other browser engines on their…

They're not looking as much as you think: https://twitter.com/othermaciej/status/885999233463009280

The overall vibes leaking from the Safari team on this matter have been arrogant, detached. I don't hold any hope.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#85

Post by bluejekyll »

Dude2018 wrote: post #79
christiangenco wrote: post #65

I think a lot of commenters here are missing the point and getting distracted by push notifications (who wants a website spamming them with notifications?) and loading screens (hardly a feature). Apple supporting PWA (Progressive Web Apps) is hugely important because it enables a future where web apps can natively support browser, Mac/Windows/Linux desktop, and mobile iPhone/Android/Windows native mobile with a singl…

Screw new features, using JavaScript and HTML/CSS for apps must die.

The DOM and CSS are good underlying principles. It would be nice if there was an alternative to HTML, like something encoded in JSON.

As to JavaScript, with WebAssembly coming, there may be options in the future.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#86

Post by NoGravitas »

icebraining wrote: post #61
FussyZeus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never met a single end user who wants desktop notifications for web "apps," including myself. In fact I wish I could turn it off globally and more easily. I'm sure there are a number of legitimate uses but as of now, every craptastic "news" website I visit now wants to pester the hell out of me with notifications when they post new clickbait.

I've never met a single end user who wants desktop notifications for web "apps," including myself. In fact I wish I could turn it off globally and more easily. In Firefox, just open "about:config", search for dom.webnotifications.enabled, then double-click it. If using other browsers, don't :) (PS: I like desktop notifications for Slack, but since I'd prefer not to use Slack in the first place, I'm not sure I count)

Also dom.push.enabled = false, apparently.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#87

Post by Aaargh20318 »

christiangenco wrote: post #65

I think a lot of commenters here are missing the point and getting distracted by push notifications (who wants a website spamming them with notifications?) and loading screens (hardly a feature). Apple supporting PWA (Progressive Web Apps) is hugely important because it enables a future where web apps can natively support browser, Mac/Windows/Linux desktop, and mobile iPhone/Android/Windows native mobile with a singl…

You can make a a native app, which will always be better than a webapp. As an iOS user, I have no intention of ever using webapps (including things like Cordova apps). If you can’t be bothered to make a iOS-native app with iOS native look, feel and features then just don’t bother.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#88

Post by Aaargh20318 »

christiangenco wrote: post #65

I think a lot of commenters here are missing the point and getting distracted by push notifications (who wants a website spamming them with notifications?) and loading screens (hardly a feature). Apple supporting PWA (Progressive Web Apps) is hugely important because it enables a future where web apps can natively support browser, Mac/Windows/Linux desktop, and mobile iPhone/Android/Windows native mobile with a singl…

You can make a a native app, which will always be better than a webapp. As an iOS user, I have no intention of ever using webapps (including things like Cordova apps). If you can’t be bothered to make a iOS-native app with iOS native look, feel and features then just don’t bother.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#89

Post by jvzr »

pluma wrote: post #40
jvzr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I don't want websites to send notifications. And I dislike websites with Offline support: I always have to refresh twice to make sure the content I'm seeing came from a fresh source and not from cache.

Then just deny push notifications when the website prompts for them (exactly once). And simply refresh manually to make sure the offline-available website is fresh. It's not like you're being force-fed notifications against your will. And it's not like offline content hurts you. Any inconvenience offline support causes to you pales in comparison to how much people benefit who actually need to be able to access conten…

Offline makes sense, you are right. I'm being privileged.

But for notifications, even the only-once* prompt is an annoyance we never had to deal with before. It's like the European Cookies Law: great in essence, but when every website bugs you about it then the problem has been exacerbated, not solved. I don't care about receiving notifications for a website I visit once in a blue moon, and I especially don't care to be even asked. There should be an action that triggers the prompt, like some kind of opt-in.

Edit: same with "app banners"

*it never is, because cross platform, multiple devices, multiple browsers. A fucking pain.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#90

Post by cryptica »

jaffathecake wrote: post #30

Safari engineers have attended all service worker working group meetings, and they do contribute. However, I do share the frustrations over transparency. It's tough to get developers to care about things like offline-first, because it's tough for them to convince managers to allow them to spend time on a feature that won't work on iOS (since it won't work in Safari, and Apple has banned other browser engines on their…

This is not surprising of Apple. They've always been a walled garden, that's why I don't buy their products. I like to own products that give me full control as a user.

When the iPod came out, I never understood why I couldn't just drag the music files directly onto the device and I had to get iTunes and use iTune's tedious interface.

Now they have the app store; another unnecessary restriction. As a developer, it's nice to own an Android phone because I can just run whatever code I want on it and I don't need to buy any special licenses, hardware or proprietary SDKs to do that.

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