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Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

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Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#51

Post by sambe »

eli wrote: post #44
rsynnott wrote: post #15

As an iOS user, I'm actually quite glad that websites can't send me push notifications on it. And app loading screens are a feature? If people _insist_ on making phone apps as websites, there's Cordova and all that. Such apps are never very good, of course. I still haven't seen a website-based desktop/phone app that wasn't a clunky non-native-looking resource-hogging mess.

Push notifications are opt in on every browser that supports them. I'm confident Apple could come up with a process that ensures you only get them if you want them and can easily opt out later.

Right, but as a user experience you get a phone that either annoys you into switching off all the features that can be used to bug you, or annoys you endlessly because you don't know how to switch it off, or doesn't have it on by default - in which case there's little point in implementing it all, because most will not even be aware they can switch it on.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#52

Post by lpa22 »

perfectstorm wrote: post #22

how good are these PWA ? are there any apps that are already out there on Android ? I'm curious to see how well it perform compared to a native iOS app.

Twitter Lite is probably the quintessential PWA, it is very well executed. Here is a YouTube video of the creation of it from React Europe https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cc3rdiXl5eY

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#53

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

ino wrote: post #32

All browsers still suck at basic functionality. Here's a quick short list of things that developers still have to write because the current implementations are broken, buggy, inconsistent or absent: - Date pickers. - Image upload [1]. - Autocomplete and datalist. - Range pickers. - Upload time remaining without javascript. - Number min/max/step, use up/down keys to increment/decrement. - Form elements that are unable…

My theory is that the next big "thing" with web browsers will be to integrate a widget kit that simplifies these sorts of things. Like a stripped down version of Qt. I've made this comment before, and someone said Java Swing, and, yeah, but I still think there's an opportunity here.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#54

Post by aedron »

Since the article did not go into details, and many of the points seem nonsensical, can someone elaborate?

Why can I not "Create an app loading screen" without service workers? Why can I not "Create an initial app UI to load instantly"? Seems these are trivially possible with regular Javascript, but maybe I'm misunderstanding?

Similarly, "Use push notifications", "Add offline support" and "Prompt installation to the home screen" do not sound like APIs that are dependent on service workers, but I guess they are? (or the article makes no sense)

(By the way, the 300ms tap delay that he gripes about can be hacked away, see fastclick.js)

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#55

Post by tallanvor »

pluma wrote: post #4

I think push notifications and offline support are the real killer features that Apple currently doesn't support. It's kind of funny as a web developer because for the longest time Apple seemed to be the one pushing the mobile web forward but now that web apps are reaching for feature parity with native, Apple's initial momentum seems to be ancient history. It seems Apple still thinks of the mobile web as a content d…

A lot of people are already sick and tired of websites asking to be able to send push notifications in the browser. Annoying people isn't a "killer feature", it's an aggravation.

If a normal website can't do the job, and the developer isn't willing to develop a native app, then maybe the product simply isn't necessary.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#56

Post by masklinn »

FussyZeus wrote: post #43
jimktrains2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im comfortable with the current system where websites request permission for notifications, but they are as useful as phone notifications. Message in a webchat, new email, new private notification on Twitter, &c. It should always be opt in, but it is a useful thing for many use cases.

I'm comfortable with it, just wish the browsers would give me the option to just say no, forever, to all websites.

I think safari (desktop) does. It has a checkbox labelled "Allow websites to ask for permission to send notifications" in the Notifications settings.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#57

Post by ebbv »

Maybe I'm just an old fogey but I don't like Progress Web Apps. I think this whole movement of trying to make web apps more native-like is wrong headed and stems only from developers who have only ever written web apps wanting to write native apps but not wanting to learn how to do it properly.

As a user I don't want to have web apps giving me notifications or having loading screens. I have always liked that the web was tightly sandboxed and limited in what it can do. The nature of the web; where when I follow a link I'm basically installing your application -- sight unseen -- means that what your app can do needs to be tightly controlled and limited.

As a developer, if I want to make a native app for any platform, I'll write a native app. If you don't want to learn Objective-C or Swift, that's fine. There's plenty of ways to write Native applications iOS using cross platform languages like C++.

Frankly, those languages are easier to write testable, dependable code in than JavaScript anyway.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#58

Post by diminish »

josefwasinski wrote: post #3

I can see why apple is hesitant to do this. But there is definitely a middle ground. Require the same developer registration process as they currently do for iOS apps. Then require some apple provided javascript to provide access to these needed functions. App review as before. At that point they can do interesting things: charge per 1000 installs, enforce the use of apple pay. They can operate a business model that…

so you say we give apple, a way to get 30% cut from every transaction done on a website on ios safari and web will leap forward?

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#59

Post by woofyman »

kartan wrote: post #20
pluma wrote: post #4

I think push notifications and offline support are the real killer features that Apple currently doesn't support. It's kind of funny as a web developer because for the longest time Apple seemed to be the one pushing the mobile web forward but now that web apps are reaching for feature parity with native, Apple's initial momentum seems to be ancient history. It seems Apple still thinks of the mobile web as a content d…

> It seems Apple still thinks of the mobile web as a content delivery platform rather than an application platform. Apple wants in-app purchases. Why deliver full flexed apps in the web were people pays using PayPal or VISA if you can force people to use your store? This is the reason Apple killed Flash and is the reason why they may kill any other web technology.

Native IOS apps can absolutely accept credit card payment. In app purchases are only required for content that is consumed in app.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#60

Post by detaro »

kartan wrote: post #20
pluma wrote: post #4

I think push notifications and offline support are the real killer features that Apple currently doesn't support. It's kind of funny as a web developer because for the longest time Apple seemed to be the one pushing the mobile web forward but now that web apps are reaching for feature parity with native, Apple's initial momentum seems to be ancient history. It seems Apple still thinks of the mobile web as a content d…

> It seems Apple still thinks of the mobile web as a content delivery platform rather than an application platform. Apple wants in-app purchases. Why deliver full flexed apps in the web were people pays using PayPal or VISA if you can force people to use your store? This is the reason Apple killed Flash and is the reason why they may kill any other web technology.

Conversely, Apple is in a perfect position to spearhead a web micropayment API standard, and has total control over the browser and thus the way users' use it.
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