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Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

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Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#21

Post by FussyZeus »

pluma wrote: post #4

I think push notifications and offline support are the real killer features that Apple currently doesn't support. It's kind of funny as a web developer because for the longest time Apple seemed to be the one pushing the mobile web forward but now that web apps are reaching for feature parity with native, Apple's initial momentum seems to be ancient history. It seems Apple still thinks of the mobile web as a content d…

I've never met a single end user who wants desktop notifications for web "apps," including myself. In fact I wish I could turn it off globally and more easily.

I'm sure there are a number of legitimate uses but as of now, every craptastic "news" website I visit now wants to pester the hell out of me with notifications when they post new clickbait.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#23

Post by velcro »

Officially Apple's reasoning for barring Flash was that web should be pushed forward. Now, almost 8 years later when web is "almost there" - its still hindering real web-app experiences in the iOS browser. Its pretty clear what this was always about.

-- (Please lets not do the fanboy "Flash is garbage" here - even if you do feel that it was heating up your CPU with ads - it would have taken a lot less than 8 years to fix that then to reinvent everything and find out that money still makes the world go round.) --

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#24

Post by kartan »

rimliu wrote: post #8
pluma wrote: post #4

I think push notifications and offline support are the real killer features that Apple currently doesn't support. It's kind of funny as a web developer because for the longest time Apple seemed to be the one pushing the mobile web forward but now that web apps are reaching for feature parity with native, Apple's initial momentum seems to be ancient history. It seems Apple still thinks of the mobile web as a content d…

> web apps are reaching for feature parity with native Not even remotely close.

This is Papa Pear: https://king.com/game/papapear

The HTML5 version is compiled from the same source that the App that goes to the Apple App Store (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/papa-pear-saga/id572542612?m...).

What's so different? It is literally the same code base (minus some platform specific code).

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#25

Post by FussyZeus »

kartan wrote: post #20
pluma wrote: post #4

I think push notifications and offline support are the real killer features that Apple currently doesn't support. It's kind of funny as a web developer because for the longest time Apple seemed to be the one pushing the mobile web forward but now that web apps are reaching for feature parity with native, Apple's initial momentum seems to be ancient history. It seems Apple still thinks of the mobile web as a content d…

> It seems Apple still thinks of the mobile web as a content delivery platform rather than an application platform. Apple wants in-app purchases. Why deliver full flexed apps in the web were people pays using PayPal or VISA if you can force people to use your store? This is the reason Apple killed Flash and is the reason why they may kill any other web technology.

While I'm sure there was also a financial motive, the primary was still that flash did (and does) suck. It sucks batteries, it sucks at security and it sucks at scaling for mobiles.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#26

Post by reaktivo »

kartan wrote: post #20
pluma wrote: post #4

I think push notifications and offline support are the real killer features that Apple currently doesn't support. It's kind of funny as a web developer because for the longest time Apple seemed to be the one pushing the mobile web forward but now that web apps are reaching for feature parity with native, Apple's initial momentum seems to be ancient history. It seems Apple still thinks of the mobile web as a content d…

> It seems Apple still thinks of the mobile web as a content delivery platform rather than an application platform. Apple wants in-app purchases. Why deliver full flexed apps in the web were people pays using PayPal or VISA if you can force people to use your store? This is the reason Apple killed Flash and is the reason why they may kill any other web technology.

Not to defend Apple on this, but no, Flash was already dead by the time Apple implemented in-app purchases.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#27

Post by FussyZeus »

jpttsn wrote: post #5

OP builds part of this argument based on "Apple isn't responsive to my complaints about web apps." Apple isn't responsive to complaints in general. Are they less responsive to web app complaints than other complaints? Otherwise, the argument holds no water.

Apple's actually very responsive to end user complaints. Not so much to developer complaints.

As much as this annoys me (developer for iOS) I do believe it leads to a better platform.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#28

Post by snowwrestler »

kartan wrote: post #20
pluma wrote: post #4

I think push notifications and offline support are the real killer features that Apple currently doesn't support. It's kind of funny as a web developer because for the longest time Apple seemed to be the one pushing the mobile web forward but now that web apps are reaching for feature parity with native, Apple's initial momentum seems to be ancient history. It seems Apple still thinks of the mobile web as a content d…

> It seems Apple still thinks of the mobile web as a content delivery platform rather than an application platform. Apple wants in-app purchases. Why deliver full flexed apps in the web were people pays using PayPal or VISA if you can force people to use your store? This is the reason Apple killed Flash and is the reason why they may kill any other web technology.

When Apple decided not to put Flash on the iPhone, they had also decided that there would be no 3rd party native apps on the iPhone.

They later reversed that decision, of course. But the Flash decision was right at the beginning and had nothing to do with in-app purchases.

Note that Android never got Flash to work well on phones either. It just killed performance and battery life.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#29

Post by scrumper »

rimliu wrote: post #7

I am starting to get a vibe that there is a new breed of programmers who think that knowing just one language is good enough and learning anything else is "stifling innovation". I don't even want to start on "PWAs work more seamlessly than native". I just cannot take person making such claims seriously.

There's more than a whiff of that in the article, for sure. Author at one point is put off Native by having to learn a "more complicated" language, i.e. Swift. It's hard to defend the assertion that Swift is more complicated than JS.

Re: Apple’s refusal to support Progressive Web Apps is a detriment to the web

#30

Post by jaffathecake »

Safari engineers have attended all service worker working group meetings, and they do contribute. However, I do share the frustrations over transparency.

It's tough to get developers to care about things like offline-first, because it's tough for them to convince managers to allow them to spend time on a feature that won't work on iOS (since it won't work in Safari, and Apple has banned other browser engines on their platform).

Ultimately it's users that lose out but also the web as a platform, as it pushes people, like the author of the article, towards walled-garden solutions like native apps.

Apple is looking for service worker use-cases, so if it's something you're interested in, let them know https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2017-July/0292....

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