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Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

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Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#301

Post by qb45 »

spodek wrote: post #203
peteretep wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has the side-effect that real victims are put off from filing charges, which is generally thought to be not a good thing.

The man accused of sexual harassment is a real victim, if his accusation is correct. Why do people not see men as victims? His reputation could be ruined for the rest of his life, even if he is innocent. People take the law into their own hands and could physically hurt him as a result of a false accusation amid a system that disregards due process. This community -- Hacker News -- is considering creating a list to n…

> The man accused of sexual harassment is a real victim

... so he needs protection in case his lawsuit fails for lack of evidence and the defamer maliciously counter-sues him for defamation.

That's exactly parent's point. "Real" victims refers to victims of crime that actually happened and wasn't just made up, not some classification of crimes as serious or not.

Basically, the OP forgot to mention that harsh punishment should be reserved for cases where it can be solidly proven that allegations were made up and people started to nitpick on it.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#302

Post by peoplewindow »

dragonwriter wrote: post #299
peoplewindow wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's certainly a fine position to take but it doesn't change the results of the study: 40% of complainants admitted they lied. Unless you think people were lying about having lied, and also making up an explanation for why they lied, just because of polygraphs? edit: I should note something else here. Kanin's study has an appendix where he reports a similar analysis on two university campuses. In this case polygrap…

> That's certainly a fine position to take but it doesn't change the results of the study One might reasonably expect that if I wanted to comment on the broader issue of the study rather than the issues of polygraphs, I would.have done so. HN discussion threads aren't simple two-sided structured debates, and there are reasons to respond to comments besides rebuttal to the central thesis of the comment to which a resp…

You're right, fair enough. Apologies.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#303

Post by [deleted] »

adekok wrote: post #257
peteretep wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's probably easiest to ignore the inchoate name calling and focus on where we can agree, specifically: > You have an implicit claim > that sexual assault is > somehow magical, and > deserving of different > standards than insurance > fraud Yes I do. Specifically I believe sexual assaults are under-reported, and that more assaults happen because they're under-reported. Taking those back-to-front, an insuranc…

> I think it's probably easiest to ignore the inchoate name calling Because it didn't happen. But you're free to feel superior to me based on lies about what I said. > Specifically I believe sexual assaults are under-reported, Yes... look at the numbers from Statistics Canada for one. In interviews, people claim sexual assault rates that are about 10x the rate of police reports. Why are those crimes not reported? Sta…

[deleted]

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#304

Post by rhcom2 »

spodek wrote: post #236
peteretep wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do people not see > men as victims? Why do you think they don't?

You wrote elsewhere on this thread: > This has the side-effect that real victims are put off from filing charges, which is generally thought to be not a good thing. Well, this man appears to be a victim who is filing charges. You seem not to consider him a real victim. Don't we want victims such as him to defend themselves? As I understand your quote, you can answer your question better than I can: why didn't you con…

He was comparing "real victims" to the "false accusations" in mcappleton's post... not the victim in the original article.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#305

Post by Chris2048 »

matt4077 wrote: post #199

Thousands of women experience sexual violence, every day. What gets Hacker News as excited as the end of Flash? The rare false accusation.

What should make the news? The usual events, or the unusual ones?

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#306

Post by grasshopperpurp »

extra88 wrote: post #291
grasshopperpurp wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't perjury already apply?

Perjury is a crime against the court. Making a fraudulent claim against a person is a crime against that person.

Appreciate the clarification.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#307

Post by freeflight »

mcappleton wrote: post #285
tajen wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is horror. We need to stop it. I still don't get why rapes generate the kind of immediate and massive solidarity from society that men's life doesn't.

Men get drafted and get their arms and legs blown off, women can stay home. Spare the women and children in war. I don't think it's cultural. Most men have an innate desire to protect women, and treat them with special favor. This was the historical way women were protected before they had voting rights. Now, they have both political power, and men still tend to give them the special favor they had before. So it lead…

There is a cultural side to it like "Women and children first" in emergency situations. I wonder if that is still expected or considered part of the "not correct" behavior? After all, it goes absolutely contrary to the whole "equality" idea.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#308

Post by grasshopperpurp »

gnicholas wrote: post #292
grasshopperpurp wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't perjury already apply?

Perjury would apply to testimony given under oath, which happens at a trial. But most cases don't go to trial, of course. You could also get nailed on "filing a false police report", which is earlier in the process. But for matters adjudicated by universities, it's possible that neither of these apply, since official police reports are not necessarily filed, and testimony is not given in a courtroom, under oath. More…

Thanks for breaking that down. Do you think the safeguards (filing a false police report or perjury if in court) are enough? And, if not, do you see any way to implement a law that would not harm sexual abuse victims as a byproduct?

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#309

Post by dhdjdndbr »

jlebrech wrote: post #133
wand3r wrote: post #36

This world is getting so fucked up. We can't crucify people for "hitting on" or other somewhat tame behavior because we have nothing left to throw at the real offenders. Conversely, people benefit on both sides of the equation; using sex to their advantage or weaponizing allegations like this. Sexual assualt is REAL and should be punished. We need to focus on a balance between being human and being a predator. People…

clearly sexual harassment is continued advances, one rejected advance shouldn't be considered harassment, but it would make a working relationship awkward. so it's best to not do it anyway. but also if merely (awkwardly trying) being nice is considered harassment bosses will be less willing to hire (attractive) women.

I did that when I ran my own company. Hired several women (close to 50% of technical staff) but none of them even remotely attractive. Didn't want the distractions.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#310

Post by Chris2048 »

vertex-four wrote: post #288
Chris2048 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of ideas in the world, I'm talking about actual action. Various celebs will back a "ban bossy" campaign, but millions of women are forced to feign sexual availability against their wishes, and barely any motivation to protests it?

There was, again, actual action. There is still actual action. It didn't, and still doesn't, get anywhere. In fact, it developed quite directly into the idea of the "ugly feminist", a stereotype that exists to this day. Funny that. Fact of the matter is, if you employ women who don't wear makeup, your clients and customers will think less of your business. You'll lose money and some positivity associated with your br…

"actual action" is not a binary thing. You can gauge motivation by how much action there is, relative to the notional "seriousness" of the subject.

On that basis, the idea "women are socially pressured into wearing make-up" falls short. Women, themselves, are rejecting the idea.

> your clients and customers will think less of your business

This isn't all jobs, though.

A doctor, or back-end dev shouldn't feel any pressure to wear lipstick.

If you want to direct criticism at those roles/instances where there is a problem, and maybe suggest solutions, I'm fine with that, but broad strokes don't do much help.

Incidentally, I see fewer women in my own country wear as much make-up as those in America appears to do. I mentioned "doctor" specifically because I am surprised how much american doctor wear. As a further anecdote, whenever an american version of a European series is remade, the american actors are usually more attractive..

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