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Docker operations slowing down on AWS

jeremyeder.com

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Re: Docker operations slowing down on AWS

#111

Post by FLUX-YOU »

falcolas wrote: post #104
breerly wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloud services don't save you money, they buy you focus.

Only slightly tongue in cheek: Imagine the focus you could achieve with dedicated personnel taking care of all of the operations concerns for your devs...

If you know good ops people, you have additional options. Hiring ops people and hoping they can out-value a cloud provider is a risk. Good ops people can cost as much as good developers.

If you're a larger business, you can probably absorb that risk if it goes wrong. If you're a startup, it could be catastrophic.

However, I also know larger businesses that just simply do not have good ops teams and a cloud provider would outperform all of them.

Re: Docker operations slowing down on AWS

#112

Post by chrisan »

Diederich wrote: post #98
chrisan wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does docker replace cloudformation? Don't you still need something that says "hey you are running out of capacity soon, time to add more hardware for your software to run on" There has to be something that adds more bare-metal for your docker containers to run on when the existing bare-metal reaches capacity, right?

A fully containerized setup allows one to use something like Kubernetes to do such orchestration. K8s is getting pretty easy to setup these days.

I was asking about once your bare metal capacity reaches its limit. At some point you need to provision more bare metal and expand the total resources kubernetes can consume with docker.

Cloudformation, to me at least, is the power to expand resources for large traffic events. Most of the time you can get by with a small amount of instances but its nice when it scales up to hundreds of instances in minutes.

The bare metal equivalent would be to buy something that can handle the peak load from the start, right?

Re: Docker operations slowing down on AWS

#113

Post by jcurbo »

chx wrote: post #10

And then people consider me a dinosaur when I say, no cloud, just rent a server or two (not colo! just dedicated servers). Your average web service does not need to scale near infinitely; for the same amount of money you pay to Amazon you can overprovision 3-5-10 times and that'll handle your spikes. No surprises. Same amount of work: EC2 and bare metal both gives you a root prompt, go from there. These days you can…

I always think of this as the "Stack Overflow approach" since I was listening to their podcast when they were building it and that's what they elected to do: https://blog.codinghorror.com/building-servers-for-fun-and-p...

Re: Docker operations slowing down on AWS

#114

Post by tgtweak »

AYBABTME wrote: post #103
sideproject wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running a web application for the past 6 months and it just crossed 150,000 page views/month mark. Sure, for others it's not that great, but for me, this is the project that is showing the biggest potential. Anyway, the funny thing is, I'm running it on $2.50/month Vultr VPS. I got so worried when it crossed 30,000 that my site will crash. But it didn't. Then when its views got higher, I optimized further.…

Not sure what your website is doing, but here's a quick thought exercise: If you serve a page in 10s, then you can serve 259'200 pages/month. render_time page_view/month 10s 259'200 9s 288,000 8s 324,000 7s 370,285 6s 432,000 5s 518,400 4s 648,000 3s 864,000 2s 1,296,000 1s 2,592,000 So like, think 1 million views per month with 2s render time. This is obviously skipping over a ton of details, but it's a good rule of…

Website traffic can be vary heavily during some parts of the day depending on demographics. It's good practice, unless you know that traffic profile, to inflate by 2-3x your average page views per second over any time period larger than an hour.

In addition to this, one pageview may produce many requests. Both of these need to be profiled before you can estimate reasonably how much traffic a webserver can handle given it's current resources.

There are some good benchmarking tools that will load the entire page, including all it's resources, and produce a more accurate load measure in terms of r/s.

As a side note, those $5 vultr instances can handle a surprising amount of static requests per second using nginx.

Re: Docker operations slowing down on AWS

#115

Post by foxylion »

mbrock wrote: post #102
vidarh wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to favour starting with rented servers too, rather than purchases (or leases, rather) - whether that's on AWS, or rented by the month then becomes a much simpler comparison. As for the CDN, we absolutely agree. I noted elsewhere that even if you host on AWS, if you have any kind of volume of outbound bandwidth use, you should probably get a CDN elsewhere whether or not you think you need a CDN. A good caching…

What about CloudFront?

Traffic pricing for CloudFront is similar to standard traffic pricing on AWS (e.g. for EC2 instances). They charge you also per request and user origin a bit extra, so in some cases maybe even more expensive.

Re: Docker operations slowing down on AWS

#116

Post by sockgrant »

sideproject wrote: post #70
chx wrote: post #10

And then people consider me a dinosaur when I say, no cloud, just rent a server or two (not colo! just dedicated servers). Your average web service does not need to scale near infinitely; for the same amount of money you pay to Amazon you can overprovision 3-5-10 times and that'll handle your spikes. No surprises. Same amount of work: EC2 and bare metal both gives you a root prompt, go from there. These days you can…

I've been running a web application for the past 6 months and it just crossed 150,000 page views/month mark. Sure, for others it's not that great, but for me, this is the project that is showing the biggest potential. Anyway, the funny thing is, I'm running it on $2.50/month Vultr VPS. I got so worried when it crossed 30,000 that my site will crash. But it didn't. Then when its views got higher, I optimized further.…

150,000 views a month is 150000/30/24/60/60 = 0.0578 qps. If there's no heavy processing you shouldn't need to be doing any optimization for the machine's sake at that rate. Slow queries / frontend code is a different story :)

Re: Docker operations slowing down on AWS

#117

Post by staticassertion »

chx wrote: post #10

And then people consider me a dinosaur when I say, no cloud, just rent a server or two (not colo! just dedicated servers). Your average web service does not need to scale near infinitely; for the same amount of money you pay to Amazon you can overprovision 3-5-10 times and that'll handle your spikes. No surprises. Same amount of work: EC2 and bare metal both gives you a root prompt, go from there. These days you can…

OK, what happens when your power goes out? What happens when a system goes down? Are you including the cost of your infra/ ops team in your server costs?

What about the larger upfront investment for hardware, especially over provisioned, relative to a spread out payment? What about the 5000 credits you get upfront from aws for startups, and the free tier?

As for vendor lock in, this isn't a problem most companies face - they're fine buying into AWS, and you're underselling the many, many other services they provide beyond EC2.

Re: Docker operations slowing down on AWS

#118

Post by falcolas »

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #111
falcolas wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only slightly tongue in cheek: Imagine the focus you could achieve with dedicated personnel taking care of all of the operations concerns for your devs...

If you know good ops people, you have additional options. Hiring ops people and hoping they can out-value a cloud provider is a risk. Good ops people can cost as much as good developers. If you're a larger business, you can probably absorb that risk if it goes wrong. If you're a startup, it could be catastrophic. However, I also know larger businesses that just simply do not have good ops teams and a cloud provider w…

Almost every argument that you are making here could be exactly applied to developers and contractors. Hope that they can out-value a contractor. They're expensive. Some larger businesses have terrible dev teams and a team of contractors could out-perform them all.

> Good ops people can cost as much as good developers.

And this is a surprise? They bring a ton of domain specific expertise, good automation experience, and they lift the burden of managing your systems from your developers, so they can work on features and not scaling.

Re: Docker operations slowing down on AWS

#119

Post by staticassertion »

sideproject wrote: post #70
chx wrote: post #10

And then people consider me a dinosaur when I say, no cloud, just rent a server or two (not colo! just dedicated servers). Your average web service does not need to scale near infinitely; for the same amount of money you pay to Amazon you can overprovision 3-5-10 times and that'll handle your spikes. No surprises. Same amount of work: EC2 and bare metal both gives you a root prompt, go from there. These days you can…

I've been running a web application for the past 6 months and it just crossed 150,000 page views/month mark. Sure, for others it's not that great, but for me, this is the project that is showing the biggest potential. Anyway, the funny thing is, I'm running it on $2.50/month Vultr VPS. I got so worried when it crossed 30,000 that my site will crash. But it didn't. Then when its views got higher, I optimized further.…

This is all fine for a personal project. The amount that the time you spent optimizing would cost a company is very likely to outweight the cost of scaling hardware.

Re: Docker operations slowing down on AWS

#120

Post by EGreg »

chx wrote: post #10

And then people consider me a dinosaur when I say, no cloud, just rent a server or two (not colo! just dedicated servers). Your average web service does not need to scale near infinitely; for the same amount of money you pay to Amazon you can overprovision 3-5-10 times and that'll handle your spikes. No surprises. Same amount of work: EC2 and bare metal both gives you a root prompt, go from there. These days you can…

Or better yet - build your software as open source that enterprise clients or end-users can run anywhere. Eliminate "the cloud" as a single point of failure.
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