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Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

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Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#261

Post by cirgue »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #74
maruhan2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Whoever is making a move should be hyper conscious of any signs of discomfort on the part of the recipient and should go the extra mile (or ten miles) to provide many more easily available "outs" than normal. In normal dating situations if an advance is not welcomed that's fine, two peers had an interaction, someone made a minor mistake, and probably no one will get hurt. In a dating situation with all the complexit…

Still wrong. The onus is on the person with more authority, power, or privilege. There is a responsibility to educate yourself if you are in such a position (and most men are, in some way or another, in the tech industry). It's 2017, there's no excuse for being ignorant any more. If you're a "flirty" person, for example, that's fine, but you need to go the extra mile to make people feel safe. Be on the lookout for no…

> It's 2017, there's no excuse for being ignorant any more.

Implicit in this statement is that your view on this issue is the truth, and anyone who disagrees with you is ignorant. If you want to have a genuine discussion with people, that attitude does not invite dialogue. You're not going to change anyone's mind.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#262

Post by LeeHwang »

tajen wrote: post #255
freeflight wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without belittling the severity of rape, yes I believe it can actually be quite more harmful/destructive. Falsely accused rarely get rehabilitated even when it turns out they had been innocent, their career, their reputation, their social circles, it will be all ruined and with that comes distress of the mind. People are quick to throw around guilt, once that's in the room your reputation will be sullied forever as e…

This is horror. We need to stop it. I still don't get why rapes generate the kind of immediate and massive solidarity from society that men's life doesn't.

The common explanation I've heard is sperm is cheap, eggs are expensive. This leads to the ramifications of men being considered disposable compared to the lives of women where hard labor isn't needed as much.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#263

Post by Grustaf »

wand3r wrote: post #36

This world is getting so fucked up. We can't crucify people for "hitting on" or other somewhat tame behavior because we have nothing left to throw at the real offenders. Conversely, people benefit on both sides of the equation; using sex to their advantage or weaponizing allegations like this. Sexual assualt is REAL and should be punished. We need to focus on a balance between being human and being a predator. People…

I think an even more important point this illustrates is that there is a reason we have courts and a presumption of innocence. Abondoning this principle is dangerous.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#264

Post by bryanlarsen »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #228
peteretep wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> suggests an obvious > course of action Do you not think people already get jailed for claims that are probably false?

Almost never. It does happen, but it's so rare that it generally makes headlines when it does.

The false conviction rate is estimated to be >4%.

http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2014/04/28/how-many-...

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#265

Post by CWuestefeld »

Lev1a wrote: post #226
peteretep wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do people not see > men as victims? Why do you think they don't?

Because they're apparently sexist idiots like you who don't think men and women should be treated equally? They somehow got the notion stuck in their heads that men just can't be in the victim role when in reality it's not that rare for men to be in that position (Hint: It doesn't get reported because of the exact stigma mentioned above).

Down-voted for "idiots like you". Name calling does not add anything to the discussion.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#266

Post by 1_2__4 »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #66
microcolonel wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they're basically industrial-scale defamation without recourse, trial, or evidence. From a game-theoretic perspective, you would be wrong not to take advantage of it to burn your competitors. If it hasn't dawned on you, this is a political strategy, not a tool for the downtrodden. I have quite literally heard people talking about these things as "the way we'll close the gender participation gap", as in, they'll…

> have quite literally heard people talking about these things as "the way we'll close the gender participation gap", as in, they'll burn men's careers until things equal out. Where? Any transcripts/ video?

That's not very listeny or believey now is it?

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#267

Post by needlessly »

wand3r wrote: post #36

This world is getting so fucked up. We can't crucify people for "hitting on" or other somewhat tame behavior because we have nothing left to throw at the real offenders. Conversely, people benefit on both sides of the equation; using sex to their advantage or weaponizing allegations like this. Sexual assualt is REAL and should be punished. We need to focus on a balance between being human and being a predator. People…

>This world is getting so fucked up

it already is. Just visit parts of Mexico

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#268

Post by friendzis »

sidlls wrote: post #217
peoplewindow wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> using it as an argument advertises the fact that you view women as prizes rather than as people How? There's no connection between what was said and the conclusion you drew from it. arkh's post observes that women often apply different standards to men's behaviour based on whether they find them attractive or not. That's not really in dispute, it's the origin of the "hot women being attracted to asshole boyfriends"…

It isn't in dispute? In what sense? I'd dispute it in this sense: women, like humans of any gender, are more likely to apply different standards based on pre-existing status (e.g. whether they're friends already or not) but not to the degree that as a rule they'd welcome a sexual advance from one co-worker and not an identical one from another based simply on attractiveness, or that they'd consider the unwanted one h…

If you define sexual assault/harassment including term "undesirable/unwanted sexual advances" and accept attractiveness to be one of factors influencing evaluation of another person as potential mate, it becomes not that hard to see lower limits for actions to be labelled "unwanted" as varying based on attractiveness of advancing person regardless of gender or social setting.

This would directly translate to welcome a sexual advance from one co-worker but not an identical one from another based simply on attractiveness. Social setting (e.g. workplace) may drive the lower limit below skirting board for some individuals, but that does not make certain social settings universally irrationality free grounds where evaluation as potential mate has no effect on social (and even professional) interactions.

While both men and women are capable of rational thought, likewise both are not individuality, emotion and desires free.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#269

Post by grasshopperpurp »

throw22221221 wrote: post #259
pyre wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue that you're missing is that "sexual assault fraud" can be claimed in cases where there is actual sexual assault, but it is a he-said/she-said situation. That is where the "chilling-effect" comes in. Sexual assault cases are many times he-said/she-said situations, so any victim reporting runs the risk of getting accused of (and needing to defend themselves from) "sexual assault fraud" in addition to trying t…

For the crime of sexual assault to be proven, you need more than a he said/she said. For the crime of perjury to be proven, you also need more. Substantive proof of lying, not just 'the guy did not get convicted'. I don't think there is a chilling effect when you use a standard of proof to admit a claim of fraud.

Doesn't perjury already apply?

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#270

Post by talmand »

michaelt wrote: post #258
mcappleton wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False accusations should be punished with the same penalty as the accuser tried to put upon the innocent. Until that happens, people will see no reason to stop false accusations that they think will help them.

If someone is already in jail because of a false rape allegation, is their situation improved if the only person who can get them released would be jailed for doing so?

If they are removed from prison, then yes, their situation improves.
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